feature request: quake 2

[cmoibenlepro]

would it be possible to add quake2 bsp loading?

quake2 maps are easier to create (no shaders (very difficult to use! ), etc), can look also very good, and quake2 is open source so there is no issues if you use this format in your projects...

I tried to open one in Irrlicht, but it does not work so it is not cross-compatible between q2 and q3...

or maybe half-life (there is free compilers so it would be better to use with this free engine...)

[Tyn]

quake2 is open source so there is no issues if you use this format

The issues of the map format are no different from Quake 3, just because it is open source doesn't mean the format is. I don't think ID is that bothered from what I have seen, as long as you don't use their tools to make 'em they seem happy to let people use it. I don't know about for commercial use though.

You don't have to use the shaders in the Q3 maps do you? Never bothered with them myself, not much use to my project.

[cmoibenlepro (not log in)]

You don't have to use the shaders in the Q3 maps do you? Never bothered with them myself, not much use to my project.

the problem is that in my game I want also to do a map outside. On all the quake3 tutorials I read, it said that I need to use shader to create a skybox and sunlight...

I know that it is possible to create a skybox in Irrlicht so in fact I don't need shaders for this...
But how can I add sunlight (I think it is called also global illumination...) to my map without shaders?

the problem is that I'm not able to compile shaders (it is very difficult)...

in quake2, this effect is really easier (you add _sun to the worldspawn, etc...)

also I though that there were no legality issues with quake2 because it's open source ... maybe I'm wrong...

[Tyn]

The code was released under the LGPL I think but that doesn't apply to the resourses they use. Basically I think you can use the code, change/add to the code but not sell whatever you make from it. Don't remember the licenses that well apart from GPL, I know it was more restrictive than GPL.

I don't see why you would need shader language to create a skybox or a light, a skybox is just a box with the normals reversed and a texture applied AFAIK and you should be able to add a global light without needing a shader algorithm to make it.

You could always just use the (EMF_LIGHTING, false) flag on the mesh inside Irrlicht so that it just creates a global light that casts no shadows. Or you could manually add a light inside Irrlicht.

[cmoibenlepro (not log in)]

no the LGPL is less restrictive than GPL.
it's the same that use SDL library.
You can sell your product made with it without releasing source if you didn't change the original code (only use it and add what you need over), if you modified the code you need to release the new source code of your project.

for skybox, I know that I can make a skybox with Irrlicht, that's not the problem.

But for the sun, it's different! I don't just want an ambient light so everything is lit equally. If the sun is to the east, the east side of a house will be lit, and the other side will be more dark, and there will be shadows.
I don't really want to have a dynamic light for a house if it never moves. A lightmap will be faster and will look more realistic.

if I didn't want lightmaps, I wouln't use compiled quake maps.
the problem with quake3 compiled maps is that when you want more complicated light effects than a point omni light, you need to use shaders...
It's very complicated and difficult and I'm not able to compile them...
quake2 is easier...

anyway thanks

[Tyn]

no the LGPL is less restrictive than GPL.

Live and learn I'm going on comparisons that others have made, I have never liked sieving through lawyer crap.

[Electron]

what's all this talk about Q3 shaders? Irrlciht can't even load them as far as I know. Also, I do not believe (though I'm probably wrong) that it is possible to copyright a fiel format. Id cannot restrict your use of bsp so long as you do not use their tools (i.e. radiant) to make them. I think someone around here recently made a converter for Hammer HL bsps as well.

[cmoibenlepro (not log in)]

what's all this talk about Q3 shaders? Irrlciht can't even load them as far as I know.

I know... but some shader parameters are used only during the compilation to create the lightmap. With shaders, you can get better light effects like sunlight effects... that's what afecelis told me.
of course, other shaders are used in runtime (like fog or water) and can't be used in Irrlicht.

About HL bsp converter, can you give me more info? it really interest me.
Do you have a link?
Thanks!

[Electron]

http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... 9be000e9f9

I haven't tested it so I have no clue how well it works

[cmoibenlepro (not log in)]

this tutorial is not about a converter for hl bsp...
it is about exporting a map file (common to quake, hl, etc...) and compile it for quake3...
but you still can't get some good lightmap effects because in quake3 if you want more things than point lights, you need unfortunately to use shaders.

[Tyn]

Irrlicht doesn't support point lighting, only dynamic lighting at the moment ( unless Niko sneaked it in somewhere I didn't spot ). Prehaps you should stop playing with the BSP map editor and have a play at hardcoding some stuff? You get a better idea of what is and isn't possible inside the engine then.

AFAIK, how lightmaps are going to be displayed is the case of the engine not the BSP compiler. Does Irrlicht even support loading lightmaps from a BSP file?

[cmoibenlepro]

Does Irrlicht even support loading lightmaps from a BSP file?

here is a quote from the feature page:

There are lots of common special effects available in the Irrlicht Engine. They are not difficult to use, in most cases the programmer only has to switch them on. The engine is constantly extended with new effects, here is list of effects which are currently implemented:

Realistic water surfaces
Dynamic lights
Dynamic shadows using the stencil buffer
Billboards
Transparent objects
Light maps
Customizeable Particle systems for snow, smoke, fire, ...
Sphere mapping
Texture animation
Skyboxes
Fog

the answer is yes. I already use them. It's one of the Irrlicht features I like and it's very easy (you have nothing to do, they load automagically ).

Of course I can use dynamic lighting (and I will use them) but by using lightmaps, you can get better lights effects very realistic (look afecelis map on the pictures of the month) compiled with great shadows added directly to the textures.
so it don't slow down you game (like if you use a lot of dynamic lights at the same time) and you get better result because it's pre-rendered (q3map2 compilation add radiosity rendering for example)
I'm already able to create some good maps, but I need to use shaders for more advanced effects (like outdoor scenes render)

But i'm not able to use shaders so I just won't use them (sadly)

anyway, it was just a suggestion because I think the hl and q2 maps are easier to create for the same result (or very similar)
I didn't ask you directly to do it. I won't do a loader myself because I'm not good enough at coding.
I just wanted to know if someone knew how to use them with Irrlicht (in fact it seems that the answer is no) because Irrlicht crashed when I tried to use one...
BTW, thanks for all your help.

[Tyn]

Double reading a post is always a good idea.

I never said that lightmaps weren't supported by the engine, I know they are. I questioned whether Irrlicht loaded them from the BSP file. There are plenty of things that isn't loaded from the BSP, why should I assume that it does just because the engine supports the feature?

Also, Lightmaps have nothing to do with point lighting. A point light is a light that shines in a small radius in a certain direction. You can USE a lightmap to create the illusion of a point light ( and be a lot quicker ) but it is not the same thing. You can also use volumetric lighting like in Splinter Cell to get a much better effect which is NOT using a lightmap ( or if it is, then it is dynamically created on the fly by the engine ).

[cmoibenlepro]

sorry, my english is not perfect (I speak french) so maybe I didn't understand correctly what you said.

But, yes Irrlicht load the lightmap from the BSP . as I said in my previous posts, I already tested it AND used it, I hope I'm clear...

for the point light I maybe didn't explain myself correctly... in a bsp editor (like Quark, gtkradiant, etc) you put lights in your map. These are only point lights. Of course they are static. then this light is compiled into the lightmap to make good shadows and the bright spot of a point light on the wall.
when you compile the lightmap in q3map2, if you want more light types than point light (like if you want spots, environment light, sunlight, sky effects...) you need to use shaders. That's only what I wanted to say.
And I wanted to know if it was possible to use bsp from HL or q2 because to do these effects you don't need shaders.

also the light from the sun is different from another light because its rays are parallels, and for a normal light the rays go in all directions around.

example:

this precompiled shadow look great, butto make it in q3 you need shaders and in q2 you don't. I wanted to make a static shadow...
I'm not able to do it...
...it's not complicated I will use dynamic ones even if my buildings never move and even if it will slow my game and even if it will look more like dirt than shadow...
that's my only solution.

[SpongeBob]

I agree that HL maps are easier to create... and Irrlicht is supposed to be good for beginners... too bad... I don't think it can be done...