What is the best and cheapiest way for bringing animations into IrrLicht?
The last weeks I tried several ways. But it seems there is no continuos path from a free modeling/animation tool to irrlicht?
Am I right?
The best tool for me is Anim8Or but the AN8 format does Irrlicht not support and in the exported 3DS format there are no animations.
Does anyone work with Anim8or and animations and IrrLicht?
What experience exists in this forum on animations and IrrLicht?
Will AN8 be directly supported in next versions of IrrLicht?
Animation tools and IrrLicht
The best way is probaly Max+Panda Exporter.
The best FREE way...
yet to guess.
Character Fx(15$), surely. Only be prepared to be all the time readjusting he feet position when you fk move some joint.
It exports directly and way featured, as x file export. Is relatively easy to learn. I just want more functionality, but does the job.
Truespace 4.3.(the offer was ending the other day, to be retired) Argh. tested my purchased one with a free x exporter, teh only one to support bones. Well...unlike cfx, it does not have strenght control over each vertex. Can set which is influenced, and which not. But that's all. Also, the exporter...argh...it exports badly the weights....
That besides that I see it way buggy...blender is way more stable, and the ui has better logic. Bones are awfully controlled by the user. Stilll, TS4 can have yet some use. Not the one i was looking for...
Blender. Ben is working now at x exporter. Now, Blender can export OBJ, x, and ASE. among many others. Problem: x files are not exported yet with armatures (bones, skeletons) But he is working at it. Once is made, it'll rock.
It took me a big while to learn blender UI. And anothe rbig one to learn it's weights system, IK constrains, tricks, etc, etc, etc.
The biggest lowdown is is learning curve. Most people get back to other packages.
But the funny thing is...is pretty powerful. Just only a few of the newbies I sent to it get happy.
I have been able to rig well a model
Blender already export bone weighted animations, in md5 format, and blender to cal3d. I suppose B. is best choice in the free land, maybe better than cfx, as can do almost-joint pinning.
Anim8or...I was told by a coder that it is not released enough info for a coder to make a bones and weights export out of it. And i can ensure that was a real pro, not any boy....
Also, it's keyframer is worse than Character Fx's. It has neither joint pinning. In the good side: is way easy, yet not very quick interface.
Bones rotations are a bit hard to do.
Material editor is nice.
It has modelling tools, which CFX doesn't, but I don't end to see it a quick modelling tool, neither very powerful.I'd rather prefer Wings or Metasequoia.
It can produce a lot of good things, yep, and it does. But I am sure anim8or users take way more time to model. Anyway,as an scenery aniamtion building, camera and light control, is excellent.
It has NO vertex weights. In the sense you can only add envelopes. Same problem than 3d canvas has. That's a no-no in animation. No way to do accurate human animation. Toon animation though can be ok.
No even planned as of what I have seen of adding a x export.
Also, there's a new version in the works, with probably IK, and vertex level of weights control. If that also allows glueing feet (or any joint) to a point, and allows x export...heck, that'd be a wonder.
But as much, I only expect ik, and maybe vertex mapping.
Anyway, is free and a gift, I am only comparing for specifically use with irrlitch.
The best FREE way...
yet to guess.
Character Fx(15$), surely. Only be prepared to be all the time readjusting he feet position when you fk move some joint.
It exports directly and way featured, as x file export. Is relatively easy to learn. I just want more functionality, but does the job.
Truespace 4.3.(the offer was ending the other day, to be retired) Argh. tested my purchased one with a free x exporter, teh only one to support bones. Well...unlike cfx, it does not have strenght control over each vertex. Can set which is influenced, and which not. But that's all. Also, the exporter...argh...it exports badly the weights....
That besides that I see it way buggy...blender is way more stable, and the ui has better logic. Bones are awfully controlled by the user. Stilll, TS4 can have yet some use. Not the one i was looking for...
Blender. Ben is working now at x exporter. Now, Blender can export OBJ, x, and ASE. among many others. Problem: x files are not exported yet with armatures (bones, skeletons) But he is working at it. Once is made, it'll rock.
It took me a big while to learn blender UI. And anothe rbig one to learn it's weights system, IK constrains, tricks, etc, etc, etc.
The biggest lowdown is is learning curve. Most people get back to other packages.
But the funny thing is...is pretty powerful. Just only a few of the newbies I sent to it get happy.
I have been able to rig well a model
Blender already export bone weighted animations, in md5 format, and blender to cal3d. I suppose B. is best choice in the free land, maybe better than cfx, as can do almost-joint pinning.
Anim8or...I was told by a coder that it is not released enough info for a coder to make a bones and weights export out of it. And i can ensure that was a real pro, not any boy....
Also, it's keyframer is worse than Character Fx's. It has neither joint pinning. In the good side: is way easy, yet not very quick interface.
Bones rotations are a bit hard to do.
Material editor is nice.
It has modelling tools, which CFX doesn't, but I don't end to see it a quick modelling tool, neither very powerful.I'd rather prefer Wings or Metasequoia.
It can produce a lot of good things, yep, and it does. But I am sure anim8or users take way more time to model. Anyway,as an scenery aniamtion building, camera and light control, is excellent.
It has NO vertex weights. In the sense you can only add envelopes. Same problem than 3d canvas has. That's a no-no in animation. No way to do accurate human animation. Toon animation though can be ok.
No even planned as of what I have seen of adding a x export.
Also, there's a new version in the works, with probably IK, and vertex level of weights control. If that also allows glueing feet (or any joint) to a point, and allows x export...heck, that'd be a wonder.
But as much, I only expect ik, and maybe vertex mapping.
Anyway, is free and a gift, I am only comparing for specifically use with irrlitch.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
-
Guest
Character Fx is perhaps the best choice for the majority.
Still, two tips:
- It has not got a way to make a foot or hand steady/glued in a point/moment. So prepare to have sliding feet and no way to solve that.
- Never use "mirror object" for bones(never). If I had knew that, you'll all have now an almost complete animation set in x file of an fps character player. It wrecks the x file during export.
I have tested CFX with several x engines, also Irrlitch. (it works in all)
Is more a matter if it does suit your likings
Anyway, for 15$, is a risk quite lower than 595, 300, or even the 79 I spent the other day in Truespace4... (there's an example: cfx is much more functional and good than cfx, cfx only does this of realtime animation for games, but does it. )
Indeed, cfx bones are WAY easy to handle than TS ones...and the easies as for yet, Max Biped, by all means.
Still, two tips:
- It has not got a way to make a foot or hand steady/glued in a point/moment. So prepare to have sliding feet and no way to solve that.
- Never use "mirror object" for bones(never). If I had knew that, you'll all have now an almost complete animation set in x file of an fps character player. It wrecks the x file during export.
I have tested CFX with several x engines, also Irrlitch. (it works in all)
Is more a matter if it does suit your likings
Anyway, for 15$, is a risk quite lower than 595, 300, or even the 79 I spent the other day in Truespace4... (there's an example: cfx is much more functional and good than cfx, cfx only does this of realtime animation for games, but does it. )
Indeed, cfx bones are WAY easy to handle than TS ones...and the easies as for yet, Max Biped, by all means.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
-
Guest
I would like to add that Milkshape is very cheap $25.00 USD and you can do a lot with its animation mode. Its a lot easier using Milkshape than it is in Character FX. Sure you dont have IK in Milkshape, but you dont get the sliding feet that you mentioned either. Plus the fact you can use an already premade animation set from almost countless freely downloaded models in used in modifications for games like the Half life mods and addons, UT skeletal PSK and PSA. Milkshape does not support weighted vertices, so you will need to use Character FX to do this by creating your mesh, attaching a skeleton of your choice, and animating it, or loading a premade skeletal animation via SMD or PSA, then exporting it by saving it as a Milkshape 3D ASCII file. Then import this into Charater FX, and use the menu commands Skeleton->Bind Skin, and use the default setting in the Skin Type drop down list. This will reasign the vertices to weighted vertices, instead of Milkshapes Rigid. You will probably have to fiddle with some to change the settings as anyone knows that any high end modeling package as does CFX default settings will need tweaking. Its just a fact of life that experienced modelers get used to.
To save yourself some time in doing this, dont waste any time in assigning the vertices in Milkshape to the skeleton, other than going to the Joints tab rollup and clicking on the root joint, then click on SelUnAssign, then click Assign and do your export. Fast, easy, and painless and cheap as well!
To save yourself some time in doing this, dont waste any time in assigning the vertices in Milkshape to the skeleton, other than going to the Joints tab rollup and clicking on the root joint, then click on SelUnAssign, then click Assign and do your export. Fast, easy, and painless and cheap as well!
Hmmm...
Sorry, not sure about that.
I will check, though.
checked.
-I purchased long ago-
No, it has no way to pin a joint.
Some comments:
character fx doesn't really have IK. Indeed, people animate with it using only fk.
Sliding feet will always happen if you don't have a way to "glue" a joint to global space.
I have digged all Milkshape menus and commands now, and don't find a single way to pin a joint. All commands there are move (which will elong bone, so not used) and rotate. Is an fk rotation, with no way to , for example, to pin the end of the chain/branch, so that moving "upper leg" , "foot" stays fixed to the "ground".
Even more, at least, selecting and rotating is not in two "clicking on menus" operations in CFX. The auto tool want do, as it'll get constantly back to select, from rotate.
So, you have the same than in CFX, without several cfx features for this. Yep, is a great converter, and has some nice modelling tools (weld togehter, smoothing groups, etc) Not so well done in other modellers.
But even in that I'm not happy. No editing in the 3d view!
metasequoia, and wings, which are free allow this nd much more. They are actually quite more advanced modellers.
The shading accurateness in Metasequoia is several times better than MS3d one.
All these facts I demonstrated to some mod artists working with me long ago. At tthe end they agreed.
If it had joint pining (I suspect real good ik is needed for this.Blender has a better aproach, I know as I use it now) then I could consider using both, after all I purchased them. But i see it no where in its interface.
Oh, the skin binding in cfx...hmm...I don't recommend it. Is really unaccurate. I do all the weighting by hand. It makes a perfect job.
Only advanatge in ms3d would be joint pinning. As bones are not even able to be handled in 3d, like mesh.. :s Besides that of not being able to use all the time a select-rotate mode... but need constantly clicking those buttons...
I see the real powerful thing for free will be Blender when it's x exporter gets finished.
Sorry, not sure about that.
I will check, though.
checked.
-I purchased long ago-
No, it has no way to pin a joint.
Some comments:
character fx doesn't really have IK. Indeed, people animate with it using only fk.
Sliding feet will always happen if you don't have a way to "glue" a joint to global space.
I have digged all Milkshape menus and commands now, and don't find a single way to pin a joint. All commands there are move (which will elong bone, so not used) and rotate. Is an fk rotation, with no way to , for example, to pin the end of the chain/branch, so that moving "upper leg" , "foot" stays fixed to the "ground".
Even more, at least, selecting and rotating is not in two "clicking on menus" operations in CFX. The auto tool want do, as it'll get constantly back to select, from rotate.
So, you have the same than in CFX, without several cfx features for this. Yep, is a great converter, and has some nice modelling tools (weld togehter, smoothing groups, etc) Not so well done in other modellers.
But even in that I'm not happy. No editing in the 3d view!
metasequoia, and wings, which are free allow this nd much more. They are actually quite more advanced modellers.The shading accurateness in Metasequoia is several times better than MS3d one.
All these facts I demonstrated to some mod artists working with me long ago. At tthe end they agreed.
If it had joint pining (I suspect real good ik is needed for this.Blender has a better aproach, I know as I use it now) then I could consider using both, after all I purchased them. But i see it no where in its interface.
Oh, the skin binding in cfx...hmm...I don't recommend it. Is really unaccurate. I do all the weighting by hand. It makes a perfect job.
Only advanatge in ms3d would be joint pinning. As bones are not even able to be handled in 3d, like mesh.. :s Besides that of not being able to use all the time a select-rotate mode... but need constantly clicking those buttons...
I see the real powerful thing for free will be Blender when it's x exporter gets finished.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
...btw, I like to start all my anims from scratch...
and thanks for the advice.
and thanks for the advice.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
Anim8or is free, and easy to use. I may look into a modeller with somewhat better capabilities, but regarding the first post in this thread, the only way I've found to get animations in anim8or into a usable format is to, after creating the animation, exportit to .3ds one frame at a time, then assemble the frames in Q2 modeller which can be found here http://emartin.20m.com/phillip/Aztec/download.htm and export to .md2. Not an ideal solution, but it works.
-
Guest
hmm...no...Anim8or source code is not given...Seems is not possible to make a bone and weights export out of it...besides, no vertex weights, but only sphere influences...kindda unaccurate, basicly the animator of human characters is left with very little control on how mesh bends...is not much better than Milkshape no smooth blending at all...
So , two problems. No weights per vertex control. No possibility to write a x exporter, nor even a direct engine (and if niko were to do that to an specific engine (waste, as x file is supported by all, soon Blender) it could be better Blender...) But as I say, only way would be "reverse engineer" , and that's a no-no..
I have a friend very good at these things (programming, not reverse...that thing) and says no info/stuff available for external programs to make exporters /importers for it...
Inmho anyway, having no vertex level weight control (Blender not only has it, even via weight painting!! A high end feature) it'd be not much of a sense till new flamant Anim8or version comes out. It'll be interesting, as probaly will have joint pinning and weights. But even then, I keep seing it's no way, as u can only export statics OBJ (or static an8, *.c, 3ds, it's been done, just the weight/anim info is not available) , not bones, not either weights...so....
I understand your position. Is a very easy software (slow for modelling, though..give Wings/Metasequoia a better try ) ...it imports OBJ and 3ds with less problems than the other two softwares I mention...but....At the end, functionality is what ends up stopping you, trust me. If a package CANT do a thing, it can't.
I have all my hopes on Blender and its x export plugin, and I am quite illusioned with it, I'm 99% sure it'll come out nicely.
I will, as always, keep updated Irrlitch comunity about its export. If finally all gets solved (but all)...I may dig some time of my very little available, and make a very short tut to get people started on it...
As I am starting to see blender (already x static meshes export!!) as not only character animator uber powerful thing, but also scenery...I saw a trick in certain forum, that could do lightmaps...but is tricky, even for an average user...again, success always be posted here..
Also...being Blender multiplatform (MacOs, Linux, both Windows...ain't it?) I think it'd be a nice tool for Irrlitch.
Again, it may yet take a while (don't ask on the forums, x exporter coder is hardly working at it, please...! )
BTW, the method you propose I have done it and if only want to use old md2 format (but it deforms meshes,(more in 2k meshes) makes unaccurate mapping, bad shading, and meshe trembling for it didnt use floats but intengers...) then your doing the right path, and yep, Anim8or will do in that case with Quake Modeller. But qm for average user is as hard or more than Blender, I saw that..for me was almost as hard to learn deeply...
So , two problems. No weights per vertex control. No possibility to write a x exporter, nor even a direct engine (and if niko were to do that to an specific engine (waste, as x file is supported by all, soon Blender) it could be better Blender...) But as I say, only way would be "reverse engineer" , and that's a no-no..
I have a friend very good at these things (programming, not reverse...that thing) and says no info/stuff available for external programs to make exporters /importers for it...
Inmho anyway, having no vertex level weight control (Blender not only has it, even via weight painting!! A high end feature) it'd be not much of a sense till new flamant Anim8or version comes out. It'll be interesting, as probaly will have joint pinning and weights. But even then, I keep seing it's no way, as u can only export statics OBJ (or static an8, *.c, 3ds, it's been done, just the weight/anim info is not available) , not bones, not either weights...so....
I understand your position. Is a very easy software (slow for modelling, though..give Wings/Metasequoia a better try
) ...it imports OBJ and 3ds with less problems than the other two softwares I mention...but....At the end, functionality is what ends up stopping you, trust me. If a package CANT do a thing, it can't. I have all my hopes on Blender and its x export plugin, and I am quite illusioned with it, I'm 99% sure it'll come out nicely.
I will, as always, keep updated Irrlitch comunity about its export. If finally all gets solved (but all)...I may dig some time of my very little available, and make a very short tut to get people started on it...
As I am starting to see blender (already x static meshes export!!) as not only character animator uber powerful thing, but also scenery...I saw a trick in certain forum, that could do lightmaps...but is tricky, even for an average user...again, success always be posted here..
Also...being Blender multiplatform (MacOs, Linux, both Windows...ain't it?) I think it'd be a nice tool for Irrlitch.
Again, it may yet take a while (don't ask on the forums, x exporter coder is hardly working at it, please...! )
BTW, the method you propose I have done it and if only want to use old md2 format (but it deforms meshes,(more in 2k meshes) makes unaccurate mapping, bad shading, and meshe trembling for it didnt use floats but intengers...) then your doing the right path, and yep, Anim8or will do in that case with Quake Modeller. But qm for average user is as hard or more than Blender, I saw that..for me was almost as hard to learn deeply...