The A.G.E. Library - Adaptable Game Engine

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Would you use a library such as AGE for your project ?

Yes, I've always wanted something like this!
5
13%
Sounds interesting. Maybe.
19
48%
I'm not sure...
5
13%
No way!
11
28%
 
Total votes: 40

Agar
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The A.G.E. Library - Adaptable Game Engine

Post by Agar »

Here's a short summary of the project I'm currently working on. Most of the work is done now, and hopefully the AGE Library will be released before the end of April.

I know, this is quite long for a "short" summary, but I wanted to expose my project as clearly as possible. I'm really curious to know if there are people here who would think this is an interesting idea.

Introduction

AGE is a DLL library entirely written in C# whose purpose is to allow the user to create any kind of games or multimedia applications. It uses IrrlichtNETCP for video, Bass.NET (not IrrKlang, which is too limited in its current version) for audio and ODE.NET for physics.

Using the engine is easy : just create an instance of the AGEEngine class (consider it like some kind of IrrlichtDevice, the mother of all other things). Then, this class' main purpose is to create entities through the various AddEntity() methods.

1- The concept of entity
(Does that sounds philosophical enough for you?)

So what is an entity, exactly? In fact, every element of the AGE world is a child of the abstract class AGEEntity. The idea is to make this class the ONE AND ONLY thing you'll ever need to add a new object to your game's world. Do you want your entity to emit a sound? Alright, the AGE engine will handle stereo and volume according to the entity's relative distance and position to the camera. Maybe you'd like this entity to emit a continuous looping engine sound? No problem, AGE can handle it: when the entity will move towards you, volume and stereo will be dynamically adjusted. And yes, the Doppler effect is handled automatically. According to the same principle, you won't have to bother to "link" the object used by the physics engine (ODE) and the the object used by the graphics engine (Irrlicht). Of course, an entity has a 3D model (or anything else, for that matters: it can be a skydome, a particle fountain, a billboard, etc...), but it also has a mass, a speed, etc.. In fact, it is a complete "object", like in the real world. When I fall from my chair, there's no godly programmer in heaven bothering to link my 3D model to my physical entity affected by gravity. Why should it be otherwise in a game engine ?

But the concept of entity goes further: not only a part of the game engine, the entity is to be an object in the game world. So why would you have to store informations used by the "hard" game engine (video, sound, physics) and informations used by the gameplay in two different places? That's why the AGEEntity class contains some kind of hashtable (if you don't know what it is, consider it like a single-dimensional array, except each element is linked to a key -in this case, a string- instead of an index number) named Properties. If you want your entity to have hit points, just add a value named health, of type integer to its properties. To access it, you'll just have to type something like MyAGEEntity.Property[health]. A property can be of any type (even another entity or another table of properties, although this might give you serious headaches), and can also be an array of values.

Now, if you want your entity to just sit back and watch the beautiful skydome above its head, you can. But if you want it to do something a little more interesting, you can too, and very easily. Everything is handled through events and delegates. For instance, the event OnEachFrame happens 10 times every second. Just code a little method to handle artificial intelligence and with a single line of code (MyAGEEntity.OnEachFrame += MyAIRoutine()), you can assign it to all entities who are to use it. Other events will be included for everything that can possibly happen in a game world (the entity is clicked, collides with another entity, comes near another one, etc...)

To sum up: before, a character was an Irrlicht node + an ODE Geom + a lot of stuff to handle the sounds it emits + another class to handle its behavior. Now it's just an AGE entity.

2- Other features

In addition to this, AGE contains (among others):

- The AGEInputHandler class which allows you to handle (through events/delegates) all kind of input you can imagine, from the usual OnMouseMove(), OnMouseWheel() and OnKeyUp() to more advanced ones like OnJoystickMove().

- The AGEAudioPlayer class which can play sounds/music (wav, ogg, mp3 or midi) and allows you to change volume and pan, as well as frequency (to simulate the sound of a car's engine when it accelerates, for instance). You can also specify a random variation in frequency, so each gunshot will sound different from the last one.

- A new type of camera in addition to the FPS camera and the "targeted" camera" : the "rotating" camera. Its rotation is set using its Rotation Vector3D like a "normal" node. It can also be rotated along the Z-axis ("roll" axis). All the poor fellows who spent hours trying to simulate a plane's cockpit in Irrlicht (I was one of them) know what I'm talking about.

- AGE also extends Irrlicht capabilities regarding 2D games. Okay, Irrlicht can create 2D games, but it was quite a mess, to be honest. In every "BeginScene() - EndScene()" loop, you had to redraw everything and to manually recompute the screen positions of objects if they (or the "camera") have moved. Now there are 2D entities who have a position and a size independant from their screen coordinates. There is a also a "2D camera" with its own position and field of view. Basically, it's a SceneManager for 2D!

3- The AGE.Library namespace

AGE also features, inside the AGE.Library namespace, a whole set of "toolbox" classes which can be used for different types of games. Some of them are :

- The AGERandom class, with a constructor which accepts a single string parameter. This string can contains various "definitions" of random numbers. "1-8", for instance, will generate a number between 1 and 8 (obviously). But now, if you use "3d6+4", the AGERandom class will simulate the roll of three 6-faced dice and add 4 to the rolled value. Very useful for role playing games, this can also be used to apply normal distribution to any randomly generated value. You can also specify "floor" and "ceiling" values so that your "2d8-4" roll will never return anything below 1, for instance.

- The NameGenerator class can generates names by combining random syllabes and "pre-defined" parts. For instance, the class can randomly select a first name from a list (from a string array you provide), add a space and then generate a fully-random last name. You can also choose to randomize only the last part of the last name for a scotsman whose last name will always start with "Mac". Hey, that's just an example! Here's an on-line program which does roughly the same thing, so you can get the idea.

- The LevelGenerator class creates a level of "dungeon" from a few parameters. This useful for role-playing games or a "skirmish" mode in an FPS. It can also create an "outside" map (randomly dispatching various tiles: water, moutains, rocks, snow... Useful for a wargame, or the outside parts in your role playing game). Here's an on-line program which does roughly the same thing, so you can get the idea.

- The AGEXMLFile class is used to easily handle XML files to read/save game settings, or to allow the creation of "moddable" games. Trust me, if every unit of a wargame is an XML file in the "UNITS" directory, the game is gonna stay MUCH longer on my hard drive than if the list of units is hardcodded in the source code.

- The AGEEncryptedXMLFile class does the same thing, except the XML file is encrypted using a RC2 algorithm. Useful for savegames.

4- What now?

Well, here we are... I'm eagerly waiting for your suggestions, advice... Do you thing this project is a good idea? Not? Any other ideas?

I'll post a message in the Irrlicht forums when the library is complete, something which should happen in less than a month now.

Thank you again for reading so far! :D
Last edited by Agar on Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
World of Ideas : an Irrlicht-powered versus fighting game
liger13
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Post by liger13 »

hmm, sounds like a god idea but i dont know any c# :( only c++
roxaz
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Post by roxaz »

i voted for "No way!" because:
1. C# umm... kind'a sux. I have more fun with c++ :P
2. Actualy game engines are for noobs who are too lazy to learn programming languages like c++
3. game engines often are too limited for more experianced users
4. messing with c++ is much more fun than messing with some game engine :wink:
Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

I voted for "No way" too, because of roxaz's points 1. and 4. and additionally

5. No linux support
Agar
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Post by Agar »

Hmm... I expected this kind of replies.
roxaz wrote:i voted for "No way!" because:
1. C# umm... kind'a sux. I have more fun with c++ :P
That's only a matter of personal taste. Personnaly, I love C# and hate VB.Net. But I'd never say that VB.Net "sucks": I'll just say "I don't like VB.net". If your concern is performance, I can tell you that all tests that I've made or seen came the same conclusion : performance for Irrlicht games is the same with C# and C++. Stop believing the popular misconception that ".NET is slow", because it's just not true.

roxaz wrote:2. Actualy game engines are for noobs who are too lazy to learn programming languages like c++
Of course, AGE's target audience is not (only) power-users. One of the goals of this engine is to broaden the specter of potential Irrlicht-users. If you're having fun messing with C++, good for you. I can understand this, as I love spending days debbugging very complex code. But I don't see why it should be mandatory. If wanna-be coders want an easy way to achieve the same thing, why should we tell them "no, you're a noob, get lost" ? I read a lot of questions asked in various Irrlicht forums and I can tell you that "noobs" are far more numerous than guys like us who like to eat matrixes and vector normalization for breakfast.
roxaz wrote:3. game engines often are too limited for more experianced users
If you want to do something really peculiar, like a complex scene using advanced pixel and vertex shaders, this might be true. But for 95% percents of projects I read about in these forums, a game engine would be enough.
roxaz wrote:4. messing with c++ is much more fun than messing with some game engine :wink:
I think so. But I know that's a perversion :wink:. But sometimes, even I would like to write a game quickly.
Andreas wrote:5. No linux support
It is true that the current version of the engine only works on Windows (some bits of unmanaged code like midi-files and joystick handling are Windows-only), but I'm working on this. The reason why I've choosen the IrrlichtNETCP wrapper instead of the classic Irrlicht.NET is that it is fully Cross-Platform. So the final version of AGE will be completely platform independant.
World of Ideas : an Irrlicht-powered versus fighting game
Klasker
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Post by Klasker »

I voted "Maybe," because it sounds like it has potential, but it depends a lot on the actual implementation. Have you got anything for easily making loading screens and/or menus? That would be a plus.

Also, I strongly suggest that you actually try to make at least one game with your engine before declaring it "complete" (don't know if have done this already). Nobody is more qualified for making a game in your engine than yourself. If I can see actual working code for Chess or Pong (or any other game) using AGE, it will be much easier to get an impression of the engine's capabilities.

Btw I am using Linux so I hope you get around to porting it.
Midnight
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Post by Midnight »

Klasker wrote:I voted "Maybe," because it sounds like it has potential, but it depends a lot on the actual implementation. Have you got anything for easily making loading screens and/or menus? That would be a plus.

Also, I strongly suggest that you actually try to make at least one game with your engine before declaring it "complete" (don't know if have done this already). Nobody is more qualified for making a game in your engine than yourself. If I can see actual working code for Chess or Pong (or any other game) using AGE, it will be much easier to get an impression of the engine's capabilities.
I agree with this exactly.

I don't know if a whole game is even nessesary if it's a time issue at the very least a few examples to make it efficient.

I don't know C# and why on earth is this using irrlicht CP if it's not linux compatable. there are other video renderers. ackis pack has loads of good stuff.
noone88
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Post by noone88 »

okay, i was thinking about such an engine, too! your idea is very nice, maybe we can work together. But there are some changes i would make in your engine design:

1) replace ode.net with a newton wrapper. newton ist the better physic engine. Ode seems nearly dead.

2) replace Bass.net with OpenAl.Net. OpenAl is free (also source) cross-plaform, 3d sound an everything you wish

3) in your engine you have this:

Irrlicht->IrrlichtWrapper->AGE Engine
OpenAl/Bass->BassWrapper/OpenAlWrapper->AGE Engine
ODE/Newton->ODEWrapper/NewtonWrapper->AGE Engine

Whats about using all the native invokes directly in the AGE Engine?
If you create a new AGE Engine class, we directly call irrlicht, openal, newton via DllImport and not there wrappers:

Irrlicht>AGE Engine
OpenAl/Bass->AGE Engine
ODE/Newton->AGE Engine

We could use the invokes which already exists in IrrlichtCP. Newton invokes are also available (i could send you an example) and the openal invokes are available through the tao.framework.

I have already worked with openal and newton with c# in this way - it works perfectly.
JusTiCe8
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Post by JusTiCe8 »

Hi, I vote no also, for same reasons already told before. And because one more important: windows developpers seems to don't take care so much about software project managment and packaging, only rely on some IDE like VC.
roxaz
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Post by roxaz »

Agar wrote:Hmm... I expected this kind of replies.
roxaz wrote:i voted for "No way!" because:
1. C# umm... kind'a sux. I have more fun with c++ :P
That's only a matter of personal taste. Personnaly, I love C# and hate VB.Net. But I'd never say that VB.Net "sucks": I'll just say "I don't like VB.net". If your concern is performance, I can tell you that all tests that I've made or seen came the same conclusion : performance for Irrlicht games is the same with C# and C++. Stop believing the popular misconception that ".NET is slow", because it's just not true.
I actualy like c# because it makes life much easyier BUT because of obfuscators compiled c# exe isnt secure. very nice code can be obtained from c# executables. thats why c# sux
kompromis
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Post by kompromis »

i voted no way
i like to do as much ass possible myself so i understand how i works
noone88
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Post by noone88 »

i voted no way
i like to do as much ***** possible myself so i understand how i works
start programming your own os, than you need to program some drivers, program something simialar to directx or opengl than you can program your own irrlicht, based on this your own engine and based on this engine your game.

Common, you have just to look into the AGE sourcecode to know 'how it works' you don't need to write it all your way.
Neirda
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Post by Neirda »

Do you need to know how to grow wheat to make a good bread ?
Do you need to know how to milk a cow to make a good hot chocolate ?
Think about it. Cheers to every people trying to make tools so that everyone can access creation.

PS : I'm hungry ^^
fuzzybunnyonslaught
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Post by fuzzybunnyonslaught »

Agar, do what you feel like, you don't need the permission of others.
I'd be interested to take a look when it's done.
christianclavet
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Post by christianclavet »

I've voted "sound interesting", but if C++ would be supported not just C#. I'm not sure I would use it right away. I'm still a "noob" :D , and I still need to learn how the Irrlicht engine is working and have a basic knowledge of c++. :(

Regards,
Christian Clavet
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