Todays religions

omar shaaban · Post by **omar shaaban** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:31 am

again ok here are the proves of god exists:
that the universe ,sun,water,system of our life,science,and planets,leaves falling,sun and moon rising in accurate time all this cant be random!! a god must created it!! also the qouran that god made is a rove of his existence so if u believe that all of this universe is made randomly or by itself so i think the problem is not in me

ErUs · Post by **ErUs** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:32 am

omar shaaban wrote:again ok here are the proves of god exists:
that the universe ,sun,water,system of our life,science,and planets,leaves falling,sun and moon rising in accurate time all this cant be random!! a god must created it!! also the qouran that god made is a rove of his existence so if u believe that all of this universe is made randomly or by itself so i think the problem is not in me

lol its not random and why do you think its been created? why cant it have been there forever? (after big bang. but the atoms were there right? )

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:34 am

omar shaaban wrote: 1-how we were created and the universe?

I already answered this. I just don't know. I have a few ideas, but they might all be wrong.
But postulating a creator doesn't help answering. Who created God? You didn't answer this question.

omar shaaban wrote: 2- when we die where will we go?

Nowhere. When we die, we are dead. There is only one life. We live it now and here.

omar shaaban wrote: 3- and if u say there is no god and that after 60 or 70 years i will die so what i will do is to kill all the people and get their money(that would the mind say"")so i can live the 60 or 70 years in happy life.

Not believing in a god, doesn't mean to not believe in morals. Actually it is the opposite. Believing in some god means to believe in old morals. In your case in the morals from 1400 years ago. Unlike what the Koran says, I don't believe that killing people is a good idea. I don't fear that anything happens to my "soul" after my death. Why does Koran know death penalty? It is kinda superfluous. If people get judged by god, then they don't have to be put to death, God will see to it that they are jugded right. After all God is the most just of all... So even Islam, doesn't trust God's justice.
So why don't I kill someone and sack all his money? Two main-reasons (and a lot smaller reason..) First, because I intuitively feel that this is wrong. This intuition is not god-given, but evolution-given. This has no moral implications per se, but is a strong urge nevertheless. Religion is a force, that is able to overshadow this intuition and make people commit deeds too vile to commit them intuitively.
Second reason: Reason. It is unreasonably for humankind to behave this way. The golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It has been invented before christendom, and it is completely valid. The first rule of morals to me. And since I don't want anyone to sack all my money and kill me, I won't do this to anyone else.

omar shaaban wrote: 4-how old are u?(i know it is a personal question but n i guess..)

I am 29 years old.

For all these points: If you can present plausible evidence, that destroy my points (yes, even my age.

) then I will abandon them. That's the sweetness of a godless life. You are only bound to reason. (And if you don't want to, even not to it.) This is as free as you can get.

monkeycracks · Post by **monkeycracks** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:36 am

!! also the qouran that god made

A bunch of people wrote it. I could go write a prophet book and make people believe it was sent to me by God if I wanted to...fortunately I'm not that much of an as5hole.

hat the universe ,sun,water,system of our life,science,and planets,leaves falling,sun and moon rising in accurate time all this cant be random!! a god must created it!!

The earth used to be molten rock, this all came over time...Lots of time. Also, not sure if this is also in the Koran, but I noticed the Bible is making some people think that the earth is only 10k years old...That's insane.

universe is made randomly or by itself so i think the problem is not in me

Not random.
Highly unlikely.
Not as unlikely as an invisible man in his invisible chair doing all the dirty work of the universe. It wouldn't take 4.5 Billion years for any omni-potent being to create a planet. It wouldn't take 16billion(Might be older/younger, I forgot since 6th grade science) years for an omni-potent being to make a universe how he likes it.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:41 am

omar shaaban wrote:again ok here are the proves of god exists:
that the universe ,sun,water,system of our life,science,and planets,leaves falling,sun and moon rising in accurate time all this cant be random!! a god must created it!! also the qouran that god made is a rove of his existence so if u believe that all of this universe is made randomly or by itself so i think the problem is not in me

Not a proof. Not even a hint of an evidence. The eternal, now really screaming, question: Who created this good of yours. Isn't a god that is able to create the universe, sun, water, system of our life, etc, etc not self subject to someone who has to create it? If the universe needs to be created, so does God!. If God doesn't need to be created, or is "outside of space and time", so does the universe not have to be created. Simple as that.

Your "qouran-proof" is irrelevant. The qouran is a book that some human beings wrote down.

And the randomness-libel is tiresome. No, human beings are not a creation of some random noise. Natural selection is the opposite of randomness. While there might be some randomness involved due to mutations, the result as a whole isn't random.

omar shaaban · Post by **omar shaaban** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:43 am

and even how where the atoms created and the molten rock!?
and also if the man only lives one life so u are v.narrow minded saturn u just go kill all people and take all the money u need and be rich or just do anything loony not just waiting for your death!!
and so if u are still on your strange thoughts so all i have made is just moving the still water in your brain so u might think about god and who created u !?

omar shaaban · Post by **omar shaaban** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:45 am

OK SIMPLY U WILL NOT UNDERSTAND HOW GOD IS CREATED NOR I BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING FROM HIS SECRETS AND THAT MY MIND AND YOURS WONT UNDERSTAND!!?

monkeycracks · Post by **monkeycracks** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:47 am

and even how where the atoms created and the molten rock!?

Reactions, they happen. Naturally and man-made.

and also if the man only lives one life so u are v.narrow minded saturn u just go kill all people and take all the money u need and be rich or just do anything loony not just waiting for your death!!

Not only religious people have morals and a conscious.

and so if u are still on your strange thoughts so all i have made is just moving the still water in your brain so u might think about god and who created u !?

He's giving good points, you're simply ignoring bare-faced logic staring you dead in the eyes with its guns drawn.

omar shaaban · Post by **omar shaaban** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:49 am

monkeycracks wrote:
and even how where the atoms created and the molten rock!?
Reactions, they happen. Naturally and man-made.

and also if the man only lives one life so u are v.narrow minded saturn u just go kill all people and take all the money u need and be rich or just do anything loony not just waiting for your death!!
Not only religious people have morals and a conscious.

and so if u are still on your strange thoughts so all i have made is just moving the still water in your brain so u might think about god and who created u !?
He's giving good points, you're simply ignoring bare-faced logic staring you dead in the eyes with its guns drawn.

Ok i did what i have to do is just to tell u about allah and his rofit mohamed it all remains for u weather u understand it or not......

monkeycracks · Post by **monkeycracks** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:50 am

I win.

EDIT :

Ok ok, Saturn wins too.

omar shaaban · Post by **omar shaaban** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:52 am

monkeycracks wrote:I win.

NO U AINT WIN MI JUST GOT TIRED

monkeycracks · Post by **monkeycracks** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:53 am

I'd get tired of staring logic in the face too.
But I don't have to anymore, I've just accepted it.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:54 am

omar shaaban wrote:OK SIMPLY U WILL NOT UNDERSTAND HOW GOD IS CREATED NOR I BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING FROM HIS SECRETS AND THAT MY MIND AND YOURS WONT UNDERSTAND!!?

You're a lunatic. No more words needed I guess. This is again a circular argument. You don't understand God's way, thus He exists.

Ok, I *really* have to go to bed now. Here is a fun read: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

Lots of proofs of god's existence, that make as much sense as yours.

Luben · Post by **Luben** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:00 am

Saturn, i really feel like you are the rotten dude after reading trough this thread. You critisize his religion, and wants to force him into believing something fundamentally different just because you say it logical?
Your disrespect for other peoples beliefs is pissing me off, and you just have to make it perfect by calling him a lunatic. Where are your morals? It's locical to be nice and to respect others.
(If i told you i could divide by zero, would you believe me?)

monkeycracks · Post by **monkeycracks** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:01 am

Luben, I'd believe you. The answer would be zero >_>

Saturn, I'll be laughing at that for days.