What Irrlicht has over Ogre...

raven_coda · Post by **raven_coda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:13 pm

It's a single dll!!

I don't have to include 26MBs of crap over for every project I create. Just One 2MB (at most) dll.

Just wanted to rant. I've started playing with the Ogre engine for it's Compositors and faster shadows but I'm starting to feel it's not worth it.

rooly · Post by **rooly** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:59 pm

yeah, i think thats what all the irrlicht veterans think...ogre is too uselessly complex for me!

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:01 pm

26MB? I count 2 DLLs with 4.4MB. With GUI and input this are 4 DLLs with still less than 6MB.

raven_coda · Post by **raven_coda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:10 pm

Sorry, I was counting all the resources as well beause it's not real clear what's need for the all the plugins to work.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:14 pm

You don't need any external resources for Ogre to work. There is a common misconception that many different cfg and/or or other files are needed, but this is not true.

I understand the reasoning that Irrlicht is simpler, indeed it is, but no reason to make the Ogre seem bigger and scarier than he really is.

raven_coda · Post by **raven_coda** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:31 pm

Yeah, I'm sure it can be trimmed down quite a bit. I was just frustrated because I was tring to get the Motion Blur effect to work and it required other files but wasn't clear which ones those were so I just ended up copying everything

SwitchCase · Post by **SwitchCase** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:42 pm

Yeh I downloaded Ogre once, looked at it and then deleted it.

BlindSide · Post by **BlindSide** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:01 am

Yeah they need a clear, proper example. I don't want an example that uses 10 different config files, complex directory structures, relies on the ExampleFramework.h or whatever that is, has lots of classes, oop, exception handling etc etc.

It really clouds up what part OGRE is actually doing. I just want a simple example in it like in Irrlicht:

- Init device.
- Make stuff.
- Render.

If someone can show me something like that for OGRE (Actually anyone here that is experienced with it and wouldnt mind, I would appreciate it) then I may consider using it.

Cheers.

GameDude · Post by **GameDude** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:58 pm

Irrlicht is much more simpler then Orge.

beshrkayali · Post by **beshrkayali** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:35 pm

well

i just went through the forums, and i was a little bit scared

and i felt it's a little creepy, or hard or something

so i went back to my Irrlicht, and I'm happy with it

hybrid · Post by **hybrid** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:34 pm

For me, the quality of a 3d library is directly proportional to the binary examples available. The first step I do with a 3d engine (after looking through the screenshots) is to run examples. And only Irrlicht managed to work immediately on all my Windows machines ever since. Ogre crashed my notebooks with most of the examples and several others just don't deliver precompiled examples such that I have to compile everything on my own - which also does not work really good because I don't have a properly working compile environment under Windows. And yeah, there are also other good reasons for me to stick with Irrlicht

Anyway, please keep this kind of discussion based on facts - it's no good idea to spread gossip or lies.
BTW: No one here who's using different engines?

FlyingIsFun1217 · Post by **FlyingIsFun1217** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:07 pm

Actually, Hybrid, I just started with Ogre.

I will not say anything in direct comparison to Irrlicht, but I looked at the kind of plugins for it, and one, a paging terrain node, looks like it could really be useful in a game that I might be attempting

.

FlyingIsFun1217

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:08 pm

hybrid wrote:For me, the quality of a 3d library is directly proportional to the binary examples available.

That's a pretty brittle base to define quality, IMHO. Basing quality on first impression is a simple way, but it might work out wrong in the end.
To me quality is based on a mixed set of attributes with binary examples only contributing very little. Documentation, feature set, code quality, compatibility, product support etc are all much more important to me.

Depending on how you define "binary examples", then to me being able to actually go into a store and buy a game off the shelf using said engine adds much to the confidence for me. It's a binary example of sorts and it is convincing evidence, that this is an engine one can base a complex project on.

No arguing, Irrlicht is simpler and getting started with a project is easier and less painful, but Ogre has more features and scales better with the size of the project. Ogre has a tighter art pipeline that Actually Works(tm), enabling artists to actually define and use materials without having to code them in C++ and recompile every time you change a shader interface.

In the end the requirements define the quality of an engine. The differences between both are big enough to make either suite a different audience better than the other.

I really wonder why, once a month or so, someone always has to start a self-adulation thread on why Irrlicht is so much better than Ogre.

Just go on with your project and don't waste time on silly arguments based on wrong facts. (See OP)

hybrid · Post by **hybrid** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:11 am

Saturn wrote:
hybrid wrote:For me, the quality of a 3d library is directly proportional to the binary examples available.
That's a pretty brittle base to define quality, IMHO. Basing quality on first impression is a simple way, but it might work out wrong in the end.
To me quality is based on a mixed set of attributes with binary examples only contributing very little. Documentation, feature set, code quality, compatibility, product support etc are all much more important to me.

Of course this is only a very simple way, but it turned out with other libraries and stuff to work fine. At least I had very few things to fix with those tools that had working examples for download, while most others urged me to work on the source code and getting major pain.
Moreover, the feature set does not contribute to quality because each feature has to have the mentioned quality - these things are orthogonal attributes. But at least code quality and compatibility seems to be strongly related to the amount of work necessary for getting running examples.

raven_coda · Post by **raven_coda** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:29 am

I wasn't meaning for this to turn into a bashing thread. I just wanted to point out how simple a single dll really is. Untill I recently started using the Ogre engine I had nothing to compair it to. I just assumed all engines were as easy as the irrlicht engine is to implement. Now that I've seen how the Ogre engine works I thought I'd come back and name what I think makes the Irrlicht engine more appealling to some people over the Ogre engine, it's simpliciy.