I help out a team that is trying to develope a WW2 night bombing simulation. The engine we use has many drawbacks. For one, it does not support "offset" FOVs that would allow us to model gun turrets properly (e.g., a sight is often behind the guns, rather then at the turrets rotation axis). The developers don't seem interested in supporting such a "limited" community.
So I guess my questions would be:
Can FOVs be offset in this engine?
Could several crew stations be implemented in the same vehicle?
Are night effects, weather effects, and flight modelling supported?
Are there limitations to damage modelling? We'd like to target specific aircraft subsystems/equipment.
A frustrated 2D/3D guy (not a programmer, but we have a couple).
bomber simulation
I think those are more on a game engine? Irrlicht is a 3D engine so you can add any features you want such as those camera systems, weather effects, etc.
My company: http://www.kloena.com
My blog: http://www.zhieng.com
My co-working space: http://www.deskspace.info
My blog: http://www.zhieng.com
My co-working space: http://www.deskspace.info
-
buster_dee
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:11 am
-
hybrid
- Admin
- Posts: 14143
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:20 pm
- Location: Oldenburg(Oldb), Germany
- Contact:
As this seems to be an "engine feature" discussion I'll move it to OpenDiscussion.
Some answers: You can define several cameras with different FOVs, also change FOV. And you can use RTT to create different FOV scenes within one rendered scene.
What are crew stations? I guess it's game play stuff which you have to cope on your own, because Irrlicht is a render engine. But joints or bsp entities might help.
Those effects are supported as particle systems, fog, and dynamic lighting. You can also use shaders for advanced effects. Flight modelling can be done using your own physics descriptions for motion, or you adapt one of the physics engine bindings.
Access to the models is possible. You can write your own mesh deformation methods based on that, vertex shaders could also do.
Some answers: You can define several cameras with different FOVs, also change FOV. And you can use RTT to create different FOV scenes within one rendered scene.
What are crew stations? I guess it's game play stuff which you have to cope on your own, because Irrlicht is a render engine. But joints or bsp entities might help.
Those effects are supported as particle systems, fog, and dynamic lighting. You can also use shaders for advanced effects. Flight modelling can be done using your own physics descriptions for motion, or you adapt one of the physics engine bindings.
Access to the models is possible. You can write your own mesh deformation methods based on that, vertex shaders could also do.
Engine have quit simple and clever parent/child scene node system. Means you can attach one node to another. This is something which would be perfectly suited for your need:
You make camera child of MG turret ...it will move and rotate with turret but can have its own position inside (offset). MG turret can be made child of aircraft hull, so it moves and rotates with plane but can keep its own rotation and position relative to plane. You can add as much turrets to your plane as you want. Each turret can have its own camera as child and you can easily switch between them. In such way you can easily change from one station to another (including pilot, navigator, radio operator, bombardier). You can even create external cameras this way.
Fog and different lighting attributes are supported and with use of particles you can create any weather effect you want.
Flight model is something you have to code yourself. But thats something you have to do anyway. I don't know engine which have good flight physic implemented. Not good enough for decent flight simulator anyway.
As for targeting different subsystems, it is possible with parent/child system. Just build your aircraft scene node out of those subsystem and you can detect hits and manipulate them individually.
What aircraft you plan to simulate? ...British Lancaster?
You make camera child of MG turret ...it will move and rotate with turret but can have its own position inside (offset). MG turret can be made child of aircraft hull, so it moves and rotates with plane but can keep its own rotation and position relative to plane. You can add as much turrets to your plane as you want. Each turret can have its own camera as child and you can easily switch between them. In such way you can easily change from one station to another (including pilot, navigator, radio operator, bombardier). You can even create external cameras this way.
Fog and different lighting attributes are supported and with use of particles you can create any weather effect you want.
Flight model is something you have to code yourself. But thats something you have to do anyway. I don't know engine which have good flight physic implemented. Not good enough for decent flight simulator anyway.
As for targeting different subsystems, it is possible with parent/child system. Just build your aircraft scene node out of those subsystem and you can detect hits and manipulate them individually.
What aircraft you plan to simulate? ...British Lancaster?
-
buster_dee
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:11 am
[quote="buster_dee"]Arras,
The guy who has been helping me learn this crazy art already has several Lancaster versions modeled (even has the parent Manchester). I was looking forward to doing a working radar crew station, but he asked me to do a B24 instead. Not sure what it will be used for.
I'm kind of a purist--and an eye-candy junky--so it all started with a ball turret I submitted. That led to requests for the rest of the crew positions. I was scared to death of trying a cockpit, but I caved in and have since nearly completed it (I'm sidetracked with the top turret and radio station at this point--so I can complete the cockpit area). I have the waist and nose/tail turrets started, but not the bombardier/navigator station, which is what he wants next.
I have some pretty unorthodox techniques--some of which won't work of course.
You can see some of my stuff at the Targetware, in the Target for Today forums.
Thanks all for the comments by the way. Very helpful.
The guy who has been helping me learn this crazy art already has several Lancaster versions modeled (even has the parent Manchester). I was looking forward to doing a working radar crew station, but he asked me to do a B24 instead. Not sure what it will be used for.
I'm kind of a purist--and an eye-candy junky--so it all started with a ball turret I submitted. That led to requests for the rest of the crew positions. I was scared to death of trying a cockpit, but I caved in and have since nearly completed it (I'm sidetracked with the top turret and radio station at this point--so I can complete the cockpit area). I have the waist and nose/tail turrets started, but not the bombardier/navigator station, which is what he wants next.
I have some pretty unorthodox techniques--some of which won't work of course.
You can see some of my stuff at the Targetware, in the Target for Today forums.
Thanks all for the comments by the way. Very helpful.
-
buster_dee
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:11 am
I thought of another question: can the engine's Z sorting handle masked textures that are stacked? The engines I've seen (and my own mapping/modelling tools) don't do that well. It's a crap shoot for us at present. The closest masked texture often affects what you are trying to do on the masked texture behind it. For example, if I alpha mask a circle into an instrument panel texture to make a gauge opening, then alpha-mask a needle behind it, the needle may not show correctly.
-
buster_dee
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:11 am
Thanks Arras. I'm accumulating quite a stash of research material, but hardly ever the desired plan drawings, so I have to do alot by eye. There have been a few, rare ocassions when I stumbled onto proper drawings after nearly finishing a model. I have a fair eye, but I notice immediately when I have corrected a model.
On the bright side: without drawings, I have to learn what the bits do in order to know what is part of what. Out of necessity, I've learned more about turrets than I ever thought I would.
Now, if I could get my hands on proper sound files for when they're operating, I'd be in heaven
As per your night bombing comment, I'm pretty sure you're right. That's why I don't know why I was asked to do a B24. But you'd be amazed at the anomolies that depart from the norm. All participants known for one specialty tried their opposite from time to time.
On the bright side: without drawings, I have to learn what the bits do in order to know what is part of what. Out of necessity, I've learned more about turrets than I ever thought I would.
Now, if I could get my hands on proper sound files for when they're operating, I'd be in heaven
As per your night bombing comment, I'm pretty sure you're right. That's why I don't know why I was asked to do a B24. But you'd be amazed at the anomolies that depart from the norm. All participants known for one specialty tried their opposite from time to time.