Irrlicht for Java

crca · Post by **crca** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:01 pm

Does a version of Irrlicht exist for the language Java?

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:56 pm

Nope. Apparently you can write a wrapper for the DLL so that you can use it in Java or other languages but I don't see the benifit and noone's done it yet.

buhatkj · Post by **buhatkj** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:09 am

well i played once with a libe that wrapped opengl for use in java, so i imagine its possible to do the same for irrlicht. frankly i think that would be wicked cool, but prolly sorta slow. games are one of the apps where the extra speed of a fully compiled lang like c++ becomes really vital. although, since all the heavy 3d stuff would be being done in irrlicht, it might work.
all the same im not sure how it would be done. others have made ruby/python/etc wrappers for irrlicht using SWIG, but i dont think swig does java.
also it would prolly be possible to wrap the whole of irrlicht in LUA using tolua++ which would be cool also

i think it would be neat to see an offshoot of irrlicht that integrated a full game engine into the irrlicht dll so that it could be a full game system wrapped in any darn language one wished heh. hey a guy can dream eh?

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:27 pm

Writing an Irrlicht-wrapper for Java is pointless IMHO. There are already some usefull 3d engines as well as OpenGL-wrappers available for Java and a modern JVM is fast enough to do anything that Irrlicht does at a reasonable speed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:28 pm

If you're interested in game frameworks in Java, take a look at jme http://www.mojomonkeycoding.com or xith3d, http://www.xith3d.org, both are very capable systems. My understanding is that Java is now *much* faster at realtime rendering. This frameworks use either lwjgl or jogl to wrap OpenGL functions. I've being comparing the features of those two against Irrlicht for a project I'm working on...

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:02 pm

Or have a look at jPCT (http://www.jpct.net). Most people are ignoring it, when it comes to 3D stuff in Java and i really don't know why...

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:12 pm

IntMain wrote:My understanding is that Java is now *much* faster at realtime rendering.

I am almost certain that is incorrect, I don't know of any commercial games that have been programmed in Java. There are some reasons behind this, I asked my bro ( he's actually done a course in Uni rather than me who has learnt from a few books and online tuts ) and apparently it's something to do with the way it's compiled, went over my head a little. What I do know is that programmers wouldn't dismiss something that is much faster since you use the right tool for the right job unless the tool becomes too difficult to work with ( something I learnt outside programming

). I am certain that Java is not more complicated to use that C++, the opposite from what I understand, so I am sure that the statement you made there is wrong.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:10 pm

Interestingly enough, I ran a number of "benchmark" tests on my low end box, a PIII 700 w/512M, an ATI Radeon 9000 64M card, Opengl 1.3 drivers under XP Pro using several of NeHe's opengl tuts. I used examples of the Dev-C++, Java, Java-Jogl and SDL tuts. The only modification I made was to add fps code to each if it didn't exist.
The results were surprising. In most cases the fps rate of the Java/OGL examples were very close to the native C/SDL examples. In a number of cases I saw fps rates in in excess of 350 fps. In Java! These were simple, dedicated examples, no big poly counts, AI, etc. My point being that even a couple of years ago, you wouldn't have seen this kind of speed comparison being so close.

"I don't know of any commercial games that have been programmed in Java."

True enough. However, in searching the 'net, I've found several sites that show great promise including Sun who are now seeing more benefit to streamlining Java for the gaming industry.

My issue with Java is this, I hate shooting flies with a bazooka. I have very specific goals in mind for my game project, and Java is overkill, for me.
Also, I can't get at the guts and modify the core code. Again, an issue for me but not necessarily for a game programmer who wishes to work at a higher level of abstraction.

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:11 pm

Tyn wrote:I don't know of any commercial games that have been programmed in Java.

There are a few. Large parts of IL2 were written in Java, Chrome used it for all of its scripting, there was an adventure that was written using Java3d (can't remember the name) and some independent game developers are using it (like http://www.puppygames.net). You can't expect it to be used for games if nobody starts using it...

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:05 pm

EgonOlsen wrote:
Tyn wrote:I don't know of any commercial games that have been programmed in Java.
There are a few. Large parts of IL2 were written in Java

Thats not a fanstastic endorsement, IL2 is amazingly slow on my computer and that's on my best PC, a 2.8gHz with a 128mb Geforce 4 MX. I don't agree with the last post:

You can't expect it to be used for games if nobody starts using it...

Developers want things done to the highest standard as quickly as possible and I know for a fact that Java is a less advanced version of C. These guys don't get together and say, "Hey, everyone else is using C++, lets use it too!". Best tool for the job, they are professional. The companies that don't die, it's as simple as that.

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:37 pm

Tyn wrote:I know for a fact that Java is a less advanced version of C.

You obviously don't have a clue about what Java is and how it works, what it is targetted for and so on. Maybe we should stop this pointless discussion here and get back to the topic of this thread?

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:49 pm

This thread was resolved ages ago. The original question was if there was a Java version of Irrlicht available, which was a no. There were a few suggestions of different engines that use Java.

Now on to your point. As I have said before ( why do people get so touchy over Java for? ) Java is just a version of C that was designed to work in household appliances like washing machine cycles. Research it instead of posting pointless comments about what I do and don't know. You obviously don't know the true purpose of Java if you think it is ideal for game programming.

This is a direct quote from a Java book that my bro was using in Uni:

The vision of the project was to develop "smart" consumer electronic devices that could all be centrally controlled and programmed from a handheld-remote-control-like device...
His extensions and modifications to C++ (also know as C++ ++ --), were the first steps towards the development of an independent language that would fit the project objectives. He named the language "Oak" while staring at an oak tree outside his office window!

Oak was what is now known as Java, which was based upon C++ but scaled down to meet the requirements they had for the electrical appliances. Get a clue yourself m8 before you start to talk to me about not knowing anything. I haven't got any problem with Java as a language for web browsers but when people try to say that Java is some superior language to C++ is just plain stupid since it is just a scaled down version.

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:22 pm

So you are judging the whole language based on this quote from a book your brother uses at uni? Thinking that Java is just a version of C just shows that you never actually used it.

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:41 pm

1. I never said that Java was just C under a different name. I said it is a derivitive of C which is entirely true from the research I have done. I have used it in simple form, have seen others using it in more advanced features for internet applications and I know the terminology is slightly different. I have also used BASIC which is far different from both languages. Thinking that Java doesn't inherit from C just shows that you have never used any other languages. Did you think the concept of classes in Java and C++ was just a coincidence? I can tell you there is no class system in Basic, I have worked with it under many guises but none that are so close to C++ as Java is. I think your own comments as to what the purpose of Java is should be directed at yourself as you seem to have no knowledge of it's origins.

2. I have validated this from the internet, I trust something that qualified lecturers at a University feel is fit to teach Java to their students far more than some anonymous person who seems to rubbish it. If you know differently I will happily give you the address of the publisher and you can get it changed. I'd love to hear your version of how Java was conceieved, please do tell.

EgonOlsen · Post by **EgonOlsen** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:01 pm

I never claimed that Java isn't similar to C++ in some aspects and i know that your quote is correct. I just think that it's narrow minded to judge the language based on only that. Whatever its origins are, today Java is no longer a "language for washing machines". It's a very powerfull language for server side programming and it's fine for most client side applications too. It's also fine for games of some kind. Did you have a look at the puppygames-link i posted? It's not FarCry but it's a fun game nonetheless.
And you should not trust me or somebody who teaches Java...you should trust yourself but that would mean to give it a try. I do Java programming for a living for years now and i still like it a lot. I never had the impression that i was using a "washing machine language" or a stripped down version of C++. It's just different from C++, in some aspects it's better, in some it's not as good. I still prefer it as a language. It all depends on what you want to achieve in what timeframe.
So please let us put this discussion to a rest...it won't lead anywhere.

Irrlicht Engine

Irrlicht for Java

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well there's GL4java...