Irrlicht... or Ogre3D?

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:11 pm

Fair point, I forgot about that. I can't normally force myself to read that far into the GPL.

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:55 pm

Thanks for that in-depth look at GPL rogerborg. Yeah, I am starting to really dislike GPL as of now, although I used to use it plenty. I think I will switch over to the Zlib license now.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 pm

Oh please, that's just stupid. GPL is far more clear than most commercial licenses I had the (dis-)pleasure to read.
"I don't touch GPL or LGPL'd source, and one reason is the uncertainty over exactly what satisfies the license and what doesn't." translates directly into "I'm too lazy to take the ten minutes to look the points I'm in doubt in up."
"I'm too lazy to open the window blinds, I better stay at home because of the 'weather uncertainties'."

There is a huge GPL FAQ that should cover most "uncertainties", and if not, just write your question to licensing@fsf.org. "Licensing uncertainties" are no reason to not use GPL/LGPL software, as it is embarrassingly easy to make those uncertainties vanish.
And as long as you don't publish GPL/LGPLed code yourself, but just use it, you are not affected at all, unlike with some other licenses.

twilight17 · Post by **twilight17** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:43 pm

Please don't turn this thread into a flame war

It started really nice

Vsk · Post by **Vsk** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:53 pm

Already was too late

.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:53 pm

twilight17 wrote:Please don't turn this thread into a flame war It started really nice

If you have further questions about the arguments I made, just ask them. What part is unclear?

Stating ignorance is not a valid argument and yes I get agitated when people do it. Please, just delve in ignorance, I don't care. But if you are proud of it and publicly denounce something because of ignorance, as rogerborg did, then I call the bluff anytime. If my post is starting a flame war, than rogerborg posted flame bait.

Vsk · Post by **Vsk** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:58 pm

I hava a question that never understood. Everyone is free to go from one forum to other, ok. But you are in every ogre vs irrlicht post explaing why irrlicht "sucks". So why continuig entering to irrilcht??? That sounds flaming

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:04 pm

Vsk wrote:I hava a question that never understood. Everyone is free to go from one forum to other, ok. But you are in every ogre vs irrlicht post explaing why irrlicht "sucks". So why continuig entering to irrilcht??? That sounds flaming

Not true. I defended Irrlicht in my last posts, while staying true to what I think to be factual truth. I did never say Irrlicht "sucks" or anything to that goal. I do say so when I believe Irrlicht lacks in a certain direction, but so does rogerborg. Actually I defended Irrlicht more than once and if I recall correctly (actually vsk, you just have to scroll a few posts up in this thread) my posts actually made (among other posts from others) twilight17 choose Irrlicht over Ogre.

dlangdev · Post by **dlangdev** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:23 pm

i saw many screenshots showing how better ogre is than irrlicht, does that make a point in favor of ogre?

to some people, the answer is yes.

personally, my answer is no.

why?

it's simply because of personal preference.

plus, i write c++ code which allows me to go under the hood and fix whatever that need modification.

it would be dumb of me to use ogre, as i need more stuff to write code for.

bitplane · Post by **bitplane** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:25 pm

rogerborg always posts wonderfully crafted flamebait, but I don't think it's usually his intention. The GPL like all other copyleft simply doesn't play well with others, given the choice between free beer and free foie gras corn I'll take the beer.
Also, in defence of Saturn, I've never seen him crap in an Irrlicht vs Ogre thread, just correct people when they're wrong and refuse to back down.
I'd rather have an Ogre user take part in a discussion about the differences of the two engines, otherwise it would be far too biased.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:30 pm

Eh, it's OK, I'm content to remain stupid and lazy. You can't debate with a GPL believer when they start talking about all the stuff that's not in the license: all you can do is smile benevolently and say "Yes, if you say so, then that must be true." They're just so gosh-darn cute.

Saturn · Post by **Saturn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:39 pm

rogerborg wrote:Eh, it's OK, I'm content to remain stupid and lazy. You can't debate with a GPL believer, all you can do is smile benevolently and say "Yes, if you say so, then that must be true."

I hate getting this kind of (non-)response. But well got to live with it. So if you say so...

aboeing · Post by **aboeing** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:06 am

Saturn wrote: Physics wrappers imo are a particular strength of Ogre, as there are wrappers for most major libs (Newton, ODE, Bullet, PhysX)

Yeah but Irrlicht has a tutorial for using PAL as a physics wrapper, so you can use Ageia PhysX, Box2D, Bullet, Dynamechs, IBDS, JigLib, Meqon, Newton, ODE, OpenTissue, Simple Physics Engine, Tokamak, and TrueAxis with Irrlicht...

Vsk · Post by **Vsk** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:44 pm

hi, I wrote suck between " " to indicate that you never use that word, but if someone reads realy thinks that of irrlicht. Sorry if that no make clear and unrespect you.
I have red several ogre vs irrlicht post olds and news and of course you never say "sucks" (as I indicated) but always shows how irrlicht is missing of "hundrends" of "importants" feuters that... ogre has. And that irrlicht is so limited (of course it is (like ogre is)). And make irrlicht appears like you never going to make a greate game.

Most begginers could thought that in fact they are not going to get what they initatly were looking for. while in fact irrlicht has more that necesarry for most of indie and NOT high profit commercial games. Even more ¿how many great games (millions dollar budget) use free engines? ¿How many use ogre? few to none!. Because THEY ARE LIMITED! in some or other devopment stuff but they are. But for most proyect (NOT millions of budget) they are enough (ogre, and even irrlicht) and besides irrlicht is easier!

.

There is no need to so much inteligence to understand that irrlicht ought have some limitation over ogre becaue is EASIER. Something can be so much easier than other with a great learning curve and have all the featurea and flexiblity you want (actualy I think it has the flexibility). It is basic. And most people that choose irrlicht like me undestand that.
I had 5 month to make a demo of a game, need it physic, need a quick learning curve and i don't need oblivion graphic and I never used a 3d engine!. I test irrlicht and it has almost all necesary and what it doen't, some people already had created some "x-node" for that need!. So I choose irrlicht.
Maybe for entire game I'll choose ogre, maybe not! (irrilcht 1.4 went into a huge step). Maybe I use torque or some other.

Well thats my opinion. I hope it got more clear than before.

twilight17 · Post by **twilight17** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:27 pm

aboeing wrote:
Saturn wrote: Physics wrappers imo are a particular strength of Ogre, as there are wrappers for most major libs (Newton, ODE, Bullet, PhysX)
Yeah but Irrlicht has a tutorial for using PAL as a physics wrapper, so you can use Ageia PhysX, Box2D, Bullet, Dynamechs, IBDS, JigLib, Meqon, Newton, ODE, OpenTissue, Simple Physics Engine, Tokamak, and TrueAxis with Irrlicht...

OH WOW! thank you for that