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bitplane
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Post by bitplane »

jam wrote:
bitplane wrote: It's called trusted computing, and it will kill all indie development and open source.
If man can build it, man can also break it.
Sure, the right man with an electron microscope and a silicon fab plant may be able to in theory, but not many hackers have those in their bedrooms!

<rant>Back on the subject of "piracy", most copyright violators aren't paying for anything period. There are the people who share and swap games like schoolboys do with porn mags, there are hoarders who never play games and just act like stamp collectors, then you've got the cheap people who just want free entertainment. Stop copying and most people will find entertainment elsewhere, they'll probably just watch more television :roll:

I buy games because 1) I can afford to, 2) I like the nice shiny box on my shelf, and 3) because I like to support the things I love. I don't do it out of guilt or because I believe copyright violation is a sin and I harbour no more hatred towards software "pirates". The term "piracy" annoys me, a violation of a civil contract between society and content owners is the equivalent of spitting on the floor or smoking in a non-smoking area, not theft and murder. Scrumping is far worse than copying games!

In fact, it saddens me to see fat teenagers saving all their money so they can spend their sad existences sat indoors feeding their game addictions. They *should* be pirating so they can spend what little money they have on a social life. The games industry is largely about selling addictive materials to children by use of peer pressure and emotional blackmail, so they have no moral highground!</rant>
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bitplane
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Post by bitplane »

rogerborg wrote:I can't see Trusted Computing catching on in the short or even medium term.
My money is on 5-10 years because of the corporate desktop market.
IT's all about corrupt bandwagons, it doesn't matter that nobody actually needs to go anywhere they just get on board. Most of the new web apps I test in my day job are worse than the telnet systems they first replaced, but everyone wants to move forward because everyone wants skills in new technologies! When choosing between technology X and technology Y, simply visit JobServe.com and see what pays the most.

No more viruses or antivirus software, complete audit logging and control over who reads what documents. If it looks like the next big thing then I can think of a hundred reasons why you'd want TC, if it doesn't then I can think of thousands of reasons why you wouldn't!
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Post by rogerborg »

You know, sometimes I worry that I'm too cynical, and then sometimes I worry that I'm not cynical enough.

bitplane wrote:No more viruses
No more untrusted viruses.
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bitplane
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Post by bitplane »

rogerborg wrote:You know, sometimes I worry that I'm too cynical, and then sometimes I worry that I'm not cynical enough.
Haha re-reading my posts it really shows what kind of mood I'm in when I'm forced to work on a Saturday morning!
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nmn
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Post by nmn »

bitplane wrote: Haha re-reading my posts it really shows what kind of mood I'm in when I'm forced to work on a Saturday morning!
O_O
No offense, but that post is missing some of the point. The fact that they're willing to pull so much just to make sure they get as much money as they possibly can is just a little annoying...

Also, Trusted Computing WILL NOT KILL OPEN OR INDIE DEVS. Again, the Trusted Computing Platform will only provide a way to run binaries 'safely', not force you to sign the executable or use signed / encrypted executables. Moreover, It's currently disabled by default in boards that support it. I don't know my position on that feature, but it's certainly nothing bad for us. TCP will work under Linux OS's also.

I'm not sure how it secures the binary though - Would the area of RAM the executable is stored in be somehow protected from the OS?
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Post by jam »

bitplane wrote: Sure, the right man with an electron microscope and a silicon fab plant may be able to in theory, but not many hackers have those in their bedrooms!
Several of the modern consoles and handheld's use trusted computing. The PSP is a prime example of how trusted computing can fail.
system-independent, adj.:
Works equally poorly on all systems.
-- unknown
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Post by bitplane »

nmn wrote:Also, Trusted Computing WILL NOT KILL OPEN OR INDIE DEVS. Again, the Trusted Computing Platform will only provide a way to run binaries 'safely', not force you to sign the executable or use signed / encrypted executables. Moreover, It's currently disabled by default in boards that support it. I don't know my position on that feature, but it's certainly nothing bad for us. TCP will work under Linux OS's also.

I'm not sure how it secures the binary though - Would the area of RAM the executable is stored in be somehow protected from the OS?
From what I've read (which I admit is probably FUD and propaganda) it will prevent untrusted (indie / open source) software from opening any image, document, audio file or hardware device that requires a trust relationship. These won't be handed out for free! Linux will run in a PC emulator and won't have access to things like next generation optical drives or untrusted inputs that could be used to bypass copy protection measures.
jam wrote:Several of the modern consoles and handheld's use trusted computing. The PSP is a prime example of how trusted computing can fail.
Sure at the moment it's a failure, but they aren't stupid. Every mistake makes them stronger in the future; they learn from their mistakes.
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torleif
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Post by torleif »

bitplane wrote:
nmn wrote:Also, Trusted Computing WILL NOT KILL OPEN OR INDIE DEVS. Again, the Trusted Computing Platform will only provide a way to run binaries 'safely', not force you to sign the executable or use signed / encrypted executables. Moreover, It's currently disabled by default in boards that support it. I don't know my position on that feature, but it's certainly nothing bad for us. TCP will work under Linux OS's also.

I'm not sure how it secures the binary though - Would the area of RAM the executable is stored in be somehow protected from the OS?
From what I've read (which I admit is probably FUD and propaganda) it will prevent untrusted (indie / open source) software from opening any image, document, audio file or hardware device that requires a trust relationship. These won't be handed out for free! Linux will run in a PC emulator and won't have access to things like next generation optical drives or untrusted inputs that could be used to bypass copy protection measures.
jam wrote:Several of the modern consoles and handheld's use trusted computing. The PSP is a prime example of how trusted computing can fail.
Sure at the moment it's a failure, but they aren't stupid. Every mistake makes them stronger in the future; they learn from their mistakes.
QFT

If someone was actually worried about security, the'd install linux. Windows has so many ways of going around it's not funny. Trusted computing is just another buzzword to hide the hidden cost of property software to jack up the price to the consumer, and the dumber the user the more cream they can put on top of the price

And because the U.S. military is about as dumb as you can get (and with a trillion dollar budget) the Trusted Computing Group can pretty much smack as many digits as they want onto the bill
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Post by jam »

bitplane wrote: Sure at the moment it's a failure, but they aren't stupid. Every mistake makes them stronger in the future; they learn from their mistakes.
True enough, however I think the tools and techniques of those who are out to break it also improve likewise.
system-independent, adj.:
Works equally poorly on all systems.
-- unknown
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