Action MMO\Online Action Game?

[Aryon]

-Ok, let me start whit some explanations of my knowlege about programing;
I have some knowlege about C++ or Lite-C from another Engine(not going to state the name of the engine because I don't know if is allowed or not, but experienced users should know of what engine I'm talking about, I know little about C++, so any leads to know more like a online tutorial would help)
I'm still a newbie at programing, just followed the tutorials of that engine, didn't make a "big" thing whit that.

-Well going to explain a bit of what I want to do at the start;
First I want to make it Cross platform, I know a lot of OS users around the world use Windows, But i want to do this game cross platformed, to Linux\Windows\Mac,(p.s- I'm Linux User)
Want to make the basic system of the game, movement(jumping\Climbing\Crouch\Swim)\leveling\Combat(ranged and close combat)

-Knowlege about Online games(MMORPG's\Action MMO's and so on)
I Know that making a game like this need's to use a structure like Server\Client, the server gets information of the Database from the SQL server(i think) and sends to the Client when this one request that information.(not sure about if this is correct.)

Now to the questions;
Do Irrlicht can support this kind of games?
Do any one ever tried to make something like this whit Irrlicht?
Any one know's a Online tutorial of C++?(for basic to pro users, I searched on the internet using google and found a lot of guides but none of them help me like i wanted.)
Is there any project like this one I'm dreaming of making currently using Irrlicht engine?

Sorry for my bad English, I searched on the forum about this matter, and founded 2 posts about MMO's or online games like this one I want to do, but the info there was not the one I "wanted".
(p.s- not asking anyone to do the things for me just asking for help finding leads, I'm a newbie at programing even whit that try out whit the other engine, but I'm willing to learn.)
Thank you for your time reading this.

[JP]

Yes you can use Irrlicht for this project and for any game project in fact. Irrlicht just does graphics rendering basically, it's not a game engine, but is very good for making games and that's the main focus of its users.

People have tried making these sorts of games before as you've found. Firstly though i think you should clear up whether you really mean an MMO. That means Massively Multiplayer Online. Do you mean Massive? Do you see 1000s of people playing your game all at the same time? It's a huge task to get that sort of a game working and most fail at it, especially if they don't have the necessary programming and games experience. I get the feeling you don't really mean anything quite on that scale and rather you'd just like an online game where a modest number of people can play together, right?

For C++ tutorials i'd just say use the online tutorials, if they're not for what you want what is it you want? Maybe you could just plan your project, find out what you're going to need to know how to do and then you can specifically research how to do those things. Some people swear by C++ books, personally i don't, i reckon anything the provide can be found online so what's the point? But some people work better with books, i personally don't, got through Uni without using a single book basically

[Aryon]

Its nice to see that this community its still active, *smiles* thank you JP, your rite about one thing, I just want to start whit the basic for now, like 100 users at the same time on the "game".

My project is all ready planned, but I lack on knowlege of C++(maybe thats were I fail i think) Founded a couple of tutorials on the internet but they start all ready whit advance stuff, I wanted to learn from the basic of Basic, even If I have to learn C first I don't mind, if you know any web tutorial can you link it? or send me the link to it(via PMor MsN)? I would apreciate it thank you.

^-^ ty for replying to my post JP.

[JP]

No problem, there's lots of people here who will help you and the forums are indeed rather active so you can often get answers within the first day, often within the first hours of posting!

You will certainly struggle if you don't have a good knowledge of C/C++... I can't really think of any basic tutorials.. maybe just google for "basic C++ tutorial"? When you've learnt how the programming language works (which you really have to do, you need to learn about pointers for sure or else you'll be really confused and have loads of bugs!) then you might be better off programming a simple game like pong to try out your new found skills and learn how to use the engine and program in 3D, then if you feel confident with the engine you might be ready to embark on your voyage, though it won't be a short one, it will take quite a long time to get the project done properly, possibly even a year or two!

[Aryon]

Thank you JP, it seems my post have been moved, didn't know were to post so, ty for the person that moved the post to the rite place.

About learning how to program in C++ I founded a nice tutorial on the internet dunno if I can post the link around here.

[JP]

You can post anything you like around here (within reason of course, no pr0n ), you can even tell us what engine you were using before, i presume it was Ogre?

Out of interest, what made you change?

[rogerborg]

You can use Irrlicht as the rendering engine for an MMO, but please be aware of some things:

1) Irrlicht is a 3d engine, not a game engine. It plays well with other components though, so you should have no problems plugging it into your overall engine.

2) Writing even the simplest 100 player MOG will involve multiple man-years of work. The internet is littered with the corpses of abandoned MOGs. The definitive article is Why your next 3D MMORPG will fail.

Before you write your MOG, can you write a fun, playable version of Pong? I'd check, to be sure.

[Aryon]

C++ tutorial ; http://www.intap.net/~drw/cpp/

The engine I was using before, was 3D gamestudio, and followed the MP tutorial and demo of Locoweed, all that I did was changing models\names\ and weapons names, not much stuff, just basic changing, the code was "big" and most of the times I was "lost", well but I managed to make a test, but didn't run like I wanted, well the reason that It didn't run like I wanted its because 3D gamestudio even being a powerfull engine, its not prepared to make MMO's or other kind of "big" games like a MMO, so I stopped using it and make a search on google, a lot of friends of mine said that Irrlicht was powerfull to make what I wanted, and ofc I checked the webpage rite away, one of them said to me this one time;
"making a game its not easy, you can read all over the internet that there are programs that allows you to make a game whit no programing knowlege, but those are simple games, making a "real" game, like you want, you need to learn how to program, and Irrlicht that engine you ask me about needs that you know how to program." well whit this I embarked on my "quest" to learn how to program In C++ and use Irrlicht.
I checked youtube and saw that there are some projects using this 3D engine, and that friend told me that Irrlicht if I learn how to code I can do what I want. I know its a difficult task but I really want to learn.

Edit:
@- rogerborg - I don't want that this game its release next year, I know that making a game takes time, a lot of effort and a "nice team" or a dedicated team, at this moment I just want to make the basics, Client--->Server--->SQL--->Server--->Client, Dunno if this is the rite struture to it, and I'm starthing whit the basics first, so I might do that pong game to get some knowlege about C++, don't know if that tutorial I posted up there its of help but its helping me to understand a bit more of C++, but anyway ty for your post.

[Dorth]

Classical list of helpful tips and warnings:

1-KEEP A JOURNAL: Every step you take toward (or backward) you project, write it down. You've found tutorials on a site? Write it down. People were very/not at all helpful on a forum? Write it down. You changed engine for some reason? Write it down. And why. It took you twice as long to do this than you expected, you had to redesign something because you designed it badly, you changed your plans for X and Y. Write it down. Everything. You will be thanking yourself later. Trust me on that.

2-An online game for 2 persons is a different concept than for 3-8 than for 9-64 than for 100s than for 1000s than for 1 000 000. Each needs a completely different design. Plan your thing well and do know that you can't "just adapt it later."

3-If you are not a pro, USE LIBRARIES! Lots of them. Don't think it will make it magically easy. But it just might give you a shot in the long run, save you plenty of time and those, at least, can usually be replaced down the line if the code using them is well encapsulated.

4-Start small. No. That's it. Right there. Small. Everything you plan on doing, cut it in half. Then again. The big studios do it. The small ones too. The indie too. It's easy to have ideas and concepts. It's easy to start a project. It's even easy, to a point, to have a bare prototype. But to complete it, you will need sacrifices. And again. And then some. If you aren't ready to part with more than half of your concepts at least partially, YOU WILL !NOT! COMPLETE YOUR PROJECT!

5-Make a Game Design document before coding a single line. Know everything that will go in your world, everywhere. List all required technologies. Make schemas of the layout of your code. Simplify all that can be, because it will complexify again before you know it. If the name of that NPC in the corner isn't in your Game Design doc, you are not ready. You can use that time to read a c++ book, btw.

6-Order and prioritorize your ideas. If something must go, what will it be. If 2 things are in conflict, how do you resolve it. This list has only one place where you are allowed equal value items, it's the Must Have part which defines your game. Which you should limit to 5 items or less. And no, everything isn't acceptable.

On this, good luck, got to go code

[dlangdev]

"I just want to start whit the basic for now, like 100 users at the same time on the game."

Oh boy, you haven't seen the real world, yet.

You haven't seen how network topology affects latency. That will keep you guessing for months. You might even decide to re-write everything just because it exist.

Oh well, good luck on your (naive) dream.

[torleif]

Aryon: If I where you, I'd pick up where another project left off. Try to join a group of people who are already working on this MMO

This way you might actually get something playable

[rogerborg]

Classical list of helpful tips and warnings

I think this deserves a sticky thread of its own.