Programming for Career

Crazy Programmer · Post by **Crazy Programmer** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:45 pm

Im a senor in highschool getting ready to take my adventure into college to study in Computer Science. I havnt talked to anyone that has done this or know anything about it. I have been with DBP and the DGDK since 04 and the dgdk since 06 thats not going to cut it. I have a half a semester before graduation and i need to start spreading my wings

I am wanting to get my masters degree in Comp Sci and am wondering what language should i pick up that i will probaly use after college to develop software and commercial games.

I also have some questions.

1. How hard is it for a programmer to get a job right out of college with a masters?

2. How stress-ful is work?

etc...

Any body can just let me know what to expect.

PS: I really only want to work on Software and Games dosnt matter for PC to any console games.

JP · Post by JP » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:04 pm

Speaking from experience it's damned tough getting a job straight out of Uni.... I don't think a masters really matters... depends whether you actually learn anything useful in that extra year...

Basically C++ is what you need to know... C# knowledge too seems to be quite good but C/C++ is an absolute must.

In my Uni course they didn't teach me C++ at all, or C. Just Java which is no good for the games industry (excluding mobile phone games). So I had to teach myself after graduation and though it wasn't too hard to switch from Java most employers weren't impressed and would have preferred me to have probably at least 2 years C++ experience rather than a few months.

So it could all depend on your course as to how hard it is to get a job, and how much extra work you do of your own. If you're really determined to be a games programmer then you'll need to develop a few demos of your skills and making some interesting tech demos that impress people would help you a lot. You need to have a pretty in depth knowledge of programming and you don't get that from the vast majority of programming courses unfortunately.

Fortunately for you you know what you want to do and haven't started Uni yet so you've got a head start on me. I only decided on games programming during my exams in my second year of Uni, had a known earlier I probably could have put in a lot more work in my own time to learn more. I didn't do a gaming course so I didn't get taught much that was useful for games programmers.

I had about 14 interviews with various UK-based games companies about 3 months after graduating and all of them turned me down due to lack of experience except for Sony. For the past two years I've been with them getting a foothold in the industry doing the Official PS Magazine demo disc coding. It's taught me a heck of a lot and I've been able to spend a lot of time just dabbling in games programming on my own and expanding my knowledge further. Now I'm off to Activision studio to start my first proper games programming job so I'm pretty chuffed with that!

I know there are a few other professional games programmers on this forum so I'm sure they'll chip in too

Best of luck!

BlindSide · Post by **BlindSide** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:26 pm

I always enjoy those anecdotes JP, they are useful for me too!

Dark_Kilauea · Post by **Dark_Kilauea** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:32 pm

Experience is the major requirement. Experience, experience, experience. As nice as it is that one has a diploma, experience is what really counts. I suggest that you spend time messing around with various graphics engines, code a few games or editors. Try to build a better version of IrrEdit or something. These projects not only will teach better programming skills, time management, and other related things, but they build an impressive portfolio that you can show to a prospective employer as proof that you know something.

Experience that you develop on your own shows that you both have a drive to learn new things and the persistence to get them done. If you cannot show that you have experience, then you must try to persuade the employer that you have the drive to learn the job quickly enough to get things done. Since this is harder to do, it's much easier to let a portfolio do the convincing for you.

I currently work as a freelance programmer on an MMO game engine. I originally joined as an environment artist, but after helping out with the programming side, I ended up taking over the engine development. I got the job on the Irrlicht IRC ironically enough. After joining and volunteering for well over a year, I got a paid contract with them to work full time.

Everyone I've met has a different way of getting into the game industry. If you want to be a database programmer or work on business software, you may find it far easier to get a job. I can pretty much guarantee you this: Getting a job in games is going to be hard work, and the route one takes to get into it is usually unorthodox (and sometimes a complete surprise).

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:27 pm

Well you have already received some great responses above!

I just wanted to stop by and tell you that most people, that are "high-on-the-chain" are more than happy to answer your questions as well. Facebook is a really powerful tool, but just make sure when you "friend" them that you provide the reason, which is the fact that you would like to ask them some questions.

For example, I received about a 3-page response from Al Hastings back when I wanted to know a little bit more about the industry, and he helped me out a lot. So get around and network!

FreakNigh · Post by **FreakNigh** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:46 pm

I'd say game development is actually more of an art then it is a science, and comp sci focuses only on the science side. You will definitely need more then just comp sci to get into game development.

Honestly I'd recommend a degree in either computer or electrical engineering as you learn the hardware and the software so if by chance you want to do game development, software, or hardware you have more options with more pay.

If your completely, utterly, and insanely just for game development then you want a degree in game development not comp sci. I would think of game development as something alittle closer to theater / fine art especially now that it is becoming the next movie industry.

Crazy Programmer · Post by **Crazy Programmer** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:58 am

Thank you all for the tips, i find it really helpful. Programming has been a hobby of mine ever since i can remember and i really would like to stick with it and turn it into my career. I have been working with the DGDK since 05 and i am thinking i need to spread my wings and find something more powerful and well respected.

Starting to build my portfolio now isnt a bad idea so when the time comes i will have alot to show for what i have done.

Any tips on where i should start?
Would irrlicht be a start for my portfolio, I am really dead set on Game Development, more on Game play/AI.

What Game engines/SDKs out there should i look into?

Dark_Kilauea · Post by **Dark_Kilauea** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:36 am

The best answer I can give you is... all of them. Try to find one that suits you best, then figure out how and why it works.

fukuda · Post by **fukuda** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:27 pm

It's funny (or concerning) that students learn more programming in biology or chemical engineering than in comp. science

Crazy Programmer · Post by **Crazy Programmer** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:24 am

fukuda wrote:It's funny (or concerning) that students learn more programming in biology or chemical engineering than in comp. science

After thats said, what do you think the best route would be pursuing a career in Software/Game Development?

What classes should i take in college and anything on the side?

benny53 · Post by **benny53** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:35 am

Can't really say for sure, but I definitely suggest majoring in computer science if you are looking for a job in that industry.

Hopefully DBP and DGDK haven't harmed you that much. Basic teaches you bad programming habits unfortunately, but I broke away from them and now am fully able of solving complex problems in C++ and coding efficiently with Direct3D and so on. But just learn C++. That'll be what most major companies use. I can guarantee that.

wyrmmage · Post by **wyrmmage** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:58 pm

I'm sorry, I didn't have time to read the entire topic, but I did scan it, and I might have something to add

I've always wanted to go into game programming, but I didn't know what would be the best degree to get into the field; to solve this, I went around to reputable game-making companies' sites and recorded what degrees you had to have to apply for a job there. Here's the info below:

Code: Select all

blizzard: comp sci or equiv
2K: didn't say
sparkplaymedia: software engineer
e-games: any field
EA-gamaes: computer science
Midway: computer science of Engineer (second, computer science)
garage games: computer science or information science (web team) or comp sci (engineer)
retro studios: comp sci or engineering
ZeniMax: comp sci or equiv

totals
------------
comp sci: 6
equiv: 2
didn't say: 1
any field: 1
engineeer: 2
information sceience: 1

As you can see, computer science won, so that's what I've decided to go with

zeno60 · Post by **zeno60** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:49 pm

Just don't expect to throw your CS degree down on the table and expect a job though...

fennec · Post by **fennec** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:15 pm

Just Java which is no good for the games industry (excluding mobile phone games).

I just want to point out the IL-2 Sturmovik flight simulator series is, as I understand, written in java, except for parts of the interface. Besides being an awesome series, it is also fast and rock solid stable, both things that are very rare for flight sims.

I imagine Java's unpopularity for games is more due to it's short history than any technical reasons.

BlindSide · Post by **BlindSide** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:30 pm

In the end, a degree just shows you have commitment, and that you can make it through a few grueling years of university. Then again, some HR departments might just screen you based on a set of specific requirements and don't really know what Java or C++ is for.