project cancelled [please close]

Systemerror · Post by **Systemerror** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:12 pm

This project has been closed as I am continuing to develop Deep Sleep, please remove this thread.

FuzzYspo0N · Post by **FuzzYspo0N** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:53 pm

iv been developing a hacking game over a few years, and i would love to play yet another hacking sim, but there are some things to consider, such as "fun factor" - which is difficult to implement in concept. HOW do you play? think about the games that exist ;

hacker series (hacker1/2/3)
uplink and mods
digital hazard
fate

i could list a large number more (let me know if you want any of these).

hacker series : point and click tools (really boring, custom missions, really unimaginative(

uplink : pure AWESOME. this game was seriously cool, although there were some obvious flaws... such as repetitive game play, where in the later stages of the game the "actual hack" became monotonous. The win factorw was the scale of the game, the challenge of "management" etc, as well as new ideas (voice analysers etc)

Digital hazard : typing into a console (now i love typing but) "scan address" "hack address" "download file filename" etc gets really old really fast. custom missions, not much flexibility and the missions were generic

fate : i love fate because its a console emulation, where the story starts with an irc chat, that gives u a server to login, use password cracker tools (johntheripper) to actually decrypt the psswd file... leading to many more interesting and complex hacks using a *nix based command line system.

Now,

HOW does your game play work? what does hacking someone involved.How does the player progress, what are his goals, what are his motivational factors. what is the point of him playing ANY hack, or speicifc hacks. What scale of gameplay is there? what moddability will the game offer in terms of custom content (this is obviously a optional point but its win),

iv got a HUGE design document, and iv polished for more then 3 years, and spent at least 6 months straight on a code base for "large scale" gameplay, which incorporated multiplayer as well.

I am keen to hear more of your ideas but the concept you have suggested is textbook generic, copy paste story. "good guy bad guy ohnoes".. "the choice is up to the player" , these things are very very important but remember that a game is only cool when it is unique, and a fresh style. The scale of game alone for this type of game can be staggering.

Some ideas iv had : Make mini games in the mean time. for example :
a game i made a long time ago while testing was admin:x, where you are a sysadmin monitoring networks. simple concept : progress bars on activity on servers, servers flashing red with viruses etc, and you have to "trawl" the networks via nix style cmd's and then keep the network stability over 80 % etc etc, this is perhaps one "prototype" of a game play module that could appear in your game.

Make a handful of mini games, in the interrum nail down a solid, simple design doc, and you can definately do it. But please , as a HUGE fan of security and game development , please make it interesting

ill be glad to give any and all ideas that i can to forward your progression

Best of luck to ya, i cant wait to try it.

devsh · Post by **devsh** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:17 pm

what is the point when you can hack yourself??

MasterGod · Post by **MasterGod** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:53 pm

Sounds very interesting.

Keep us updated when you got something to show! I'd really like to see it, really.

P.S
Can I register somewhere to get an email when you're done at least making a demo or a beta or something?

wITTus · Post by **wITTus** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:45 pm

Haha, yes. Good point, devsh. Just set up a few Linux boxes and you can begin to 'play' immediately. There's integrated multiplayer, too. Realistic graphics, nice atmosphere and an almost infinite variety of missions. Just the level of difficulty is a bit too hard, and savegame functionality is missing - oh, but at least it's free. Ok ok... enough

I played uplink too and I really enjoyed playing it but FuzzY's right though when he says that the game becomes a bit boring to the end. It had also some stupid logical problems (why can't a program run without me being logged in??).

So if you try to compensate this with console commands... I don't know. As if hacking would mean to write all the time. Never heard of scripts?

You could even scan 100 unix boxes for viruses with one single console command. Programming new exploits would be one possibility of "writing". But then it would become way to realistic. Then you would have to replace this with a progress bar and then it would get boring again.

Making an entertaining hacking game is an impossible task in my opinion. However I didn't try fate (yet).

devsh · Post by **devsh** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:55 pm

i like your joke!!

and btw here is how to savegame

Code: Select all

int savemenu() {
   bool BOOLS[7] = { vsync_enabled, fullscreen, stencilbuffer, DOF_enabled, HDR_enabled, Bloom_enabled, AA};
   int INTS[3] = { track_count, resx, resy };
   float FLOATS [2] = { Music_Volume, Master_Volume };
   FILE *pFile = fopen ( "Menu.pns" , "wb" );
   if (pFile==NULL) {
#ifdef DEBUG
      std::cout << "Error 11: Could not open file for writing in binary mode " << pFile << std::endl;
#endif
      return 0;
   }
   bool success[4];
   success[0] = fwrite (signature_menu, sizeof(char) , 4, pFile);
   success[1] = fwrite (FLOATS , sizeof(float) , 2, pFile );
   success[2] = fwrite (INTS , sizeof(int), 3, pFile );
   success[3] = fwrite (BOOLS, sizeof(bool) , 7, pFile);
   fclose (pFile);
   if (success[0]&&success[1]&&success[2]&&success[3])
      return 1;
   else {
#ifdef DEBUG
      std::cout << "Error 8: Encountered a problem writing one or more arrays to the save file." << std::endl;
#endif
      return 0;
   }
}

int loadmenu (irrklang::ISound* sound=0, MusicEndedReceiver* musstop=0) {
   bool BOOLS[7];
   float FLOATS [2];
   int INTS[3];
   char signature[4];
   FILE * pFile = fopen ("Menu.pns" , "rb" );
   if (pFile==NULL) {
#ifdef DEBUG
      std::cout << "Error 9: Could not open file for reading in binary mode " << pFile << std::endl;
#endif
      if (!device) {
         res.x = 800;
         res.y = 600;
      }
      resx = res.x;
      resy = res.y;
      vsync_enabled=true;
      fullscreen=false;
      stencilbuffer=true;
      if (device->getVideoDriver()->queryFeature(irr::video::EVDF_VERTEX_SHADER_2_0)&&device->getVideoDriver()->queryFeature(irr::video::EVDF_PIXEL_SHADER_2_0)) Bloom_enabled = true;
      return 0;
   }
   fread (signature , sizeof(char), 4, pFile);
   fread (FLOATS , sizeof(float), 2, pFile);
   fread (INTS , sizeof(int), 3, pFile);
   fread (BOOLS , sizeof(bool), 7, pFile);
   if ((signature[0]==signature_menu[0])&&(signature[1]==signature_menu[1])&&(signature[2]==signature_menu[2])&&(signature[3]==signature_menu[3])) {
      Music_Volume = FLOATS[0];
      if (!device) {
         res.x = INTS[1];
         res.y = INTS[2];
      }
      resx = INTS[1];
      resy = INTS[2];
      vsync_enabled=BOOLS[0];
      fullscreen=BOOLS[1];
      stencilbuffer = BOOLS[2];
      Master_Volume = FLOATS[1];
      DOF_enabled = BOOLS[3];
      Bloom_enabled = BOOLS[5];
      HDR_enabled = BOOLS[4];
      AA = BOOLS[6];
      if (enginesound)
         enginesound->setSoundVolume(Master_Volume);
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////SET DEVICE THINGIES
      if (sound) {
         sound->setVolume(Music_Volume);
         if ((sound)&&(track[track_count])&&(musstop)) {
            changing=true;
            enginesound->removeSoundSource(track[track_count]);
            std::ifstream inp;
            std::ofstream out;
            int trackc_prev = track_count;
            track_count = INTS[0];
            const char* myFileName = track[track_count];
            inp.open(myFileName, std::ifstream::in);
            inp.close();
            if(inp.fail()) {
               inp.clear(std::ios::failbit);
               sound = enginesound->play2D(track[trackc_prev], false, false, true);
            }
            else
               sound = enginesound->play2D(track[track_count], false, false, true);
         }
         sound->setSoundStopEventReceiver(musstop);
         changing=false;
      }
#ifdef DEBUG
      else {
         std::cout << "Error 5: irrklang::ISound, track array or MusicEndedReceiver are NULL" << std::endl;
      }
#endif
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////End of Device pointers
   }
   else {
#ifdef DEBUG
      std::cout << "Error 10: "<< pFile << " is corrupt!" << std::endl;
#endif
      if (!device) {
         res.x = 800;
         res.y = 600;
      }
      resx = res.x;
      resy = res.y;
      vsync_enabled=true;
      fullscreen=false;
      stencilbuffer=true;
      if (device->getVideoDriver()->queryFeature(irr::video::EVDF_VERTEX_SHADER_2_0)&&device->getVideoDriver()->queryFeature(irr::video::EVDF_PIXEL_SHADER_2_0)) Bloom_enabled = true;
      return 0;
   }
   fclose (pFile);
   return 1;
}
void setVolume(irrklang::ISound *sound, float volume) {
   Music_Volume = volume;
   savemenu();
   if (sound)
      sound->setVolume(Music_Volume);
}

it's mixed with setting my game settings so I hope you wont get confused

wITTus · Post by **wITTus** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:40 am

Hm... you didn't get the full joke I assume?

For everybody who tries to play Fate now... the game ends when your next mission is to hack 12.243.118.6 ...

Systemerror · Post by **Systemerror** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:17 pm

Yes this is going to be one hell of a challenge, I am working with a few people on this so that's a little extra weight off my shoulders.

It's funny you should mention the "Mini games" as that was something I already had in mind..., I was thinking of creating console based mini games with a mixture of GUI based ones - the hardest challenge thus far is trying the balance the fun-factor with realism, it's not an easy task.

P.S If you want to register your interests and be updated, just drop is a line on the contact page stating so.

bitplane · Post by **bitplane** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:10 pm

I know Midnight has an idea for a hacker game, I also have a fairly fleshed out idea for a 2D GUI-based Uplink-style game. Introversion software have a lot to answer for!

I think if a hacker game was to be a cult success it would have to be realistic, encompassing all types of computer crime (botnets, phishing, spamming, rooting etc), and be dumbed down enough to be appealing to technically inclined gamers. By this I mean a way of doing pseudo-programming and writing exploits, but without having emulated processes, writing buffer overruns and NOP slides.

I can't imagine how a 3D hacker game would work though, and the website doesn't have much (any) info.

Systemerror · Post by **Systemerror** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:22 pm

bitplane wrote:I know Midnight has an idea for a hacker game, I also have a fairly fleshed out idea for a 2D GUI-based Uplink-style game. Introversion software have a lot to answer for!

I think if a hacker game was to be a cult success it would have to be realistic, encompassing all types of computer crime (botnets, phishing, spamming, rooting etc), and be dumbed down enough to be appealing to technically inclined gamers. By this I mean a way of doing pseudo-programming and writing exploits, but without having emulated processes, writing buffer overruns and NOP slides.

I can't imagine how a 3D hacker game would work though, and the website doesn't have much (any) info.

Yeah, I am still in the planning stages and how to best implement this so more details will be on the site in due course, including technical and in-depth game specific's.

FuzzYspo0N · Post by **FuzzYspo0N** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:08 pm

iv prototyped many 3d attempts at trying to have interesting gameplay, i think i have a sort of hybrid/weirdo solution that will give the player gameplay,while still requiring the BASIS of what hacking can be : solving problems by creating a way around the things in the way. this sucks a huge amount of the realism just by being 3d and interesting but then again it IS a game, making a REALISTIC hacking game is of no use to anyone, perhaps only a court of law

Then again it depends on the style of game : if anyone has seen that movie hackers 2, the kevin mitnick story, running from police / tapping phones / figuring out a way to clear your name etc all gameplay will result in hacking of some kind. Including stuff like social engineering, scripting, consoles and gui based UI can be a small part of it, where the actual game can be a 3d experience with a strong story line (say, max payne style gameplay, third person kinda "missioning" around, finding phones,terminals, people that you can hack to progress.

There is also the concept of a story that unravels more things as you progress, rather than purchasing new software, you have to find it or hack your way into a series of story/missions to "unlock" features. The features need to be carefully crafted in such a way to KEEP gameplay interesting, while allowing the player a learning curve, allowing the player chance to fail and allowing them chance to be challenged, with multiple possible outcomes.