DirectX 11 in November SDK!

P1SQ4M · Post by **P1SQ4M** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:10 am

Ok, but we'll have to make the jump some time, or stay on this side of the river.

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:00 am

P1SQ4M wrote:Ok, but we'll have to make the jump some time, or stay on this side of the river.

the other half of this is the hardware and time to work on it. I dont think anyone on the devteam besides Niko has any DX10 hardware currently (this is going off my memory, so it may be wrong). so it will be up to other people with the time and the resources to put towards the contribution to get it started.

Nadro's changes for OGL 3.0 support should help build the foundation. I would help when I had the time, but my notebook card has 10, but not 11, and I'm not upgrading it to 7 anyway(it had problems with the Beta and RC both so I'm going to stick with Vista there). I won't have anything even 10 for my desktop until i do a brand new build, which won't be until after I finish my XNA game most likely.

P1SQ4M · Post by **P1SQ4M** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 pm

Ok, thank you, it looks like it's on the list then for eventual upgrade in a few years. I'm just glad to see there's no "TAKE THAT DOWN AND GO RUB SOAP IN YOUR MOUTH!" attitude (yet

). Ok, we'll I suppose it will be eventually upgraded, seeing as other engines don't support it quite yet either it's by no means immediately necessary. Glad to hear it will probably be done.

BlindSide · Post by **BlindSide** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:24 pm

sRc wrote:
P1SQ4M wrote:Ok, but we'll have to make the jump some time, or stay on this side of the river.
the other half of this is the hardware and time to work on it. I dont think anyone on the devteam besides Niko has any DX10 hardware currently (this is going off my memory, so it may be wrong). so it will be up to other people with the time and the resources to put towards the contribution to get it started.

I think everyone on the dev team has DX10 hardware.

The issue isn't DX10 or DX20, Irrlicht is still using only 20% of the power of DX9 so there's a long way to go before we can even consider upgrading to something newer. For example DX10 assumes FP textures etc by default and these still aren't fully supported (Only recently have we added FP rendertargets and that is still rather rudimentary).

If you think you can just create a new D3D10 driver with all the new features you will be dissapointed because the main reason that all these features aren't supported isn't because of the video drivers themselves, the features can be hacked in by 5 minutes by anyone in the dev team. The real issue is that the underlying structures that are shared by the drivers and utility funcitons CImage, SColor, SMaterial, S3DVertex are highly outdated and inflexible and would need a major re-design and overhaul before we can start adding any new rendering features.

Keeping in mind that Irrlicht takes backwards compatibility AND ease-of-use into high regard this makes the problems tenfold harder to solve, the main reason why there were so many spinoffs in the past such as Light Feather and irrSpintz which had many new features but had a more complex interface, worse backward compatibility (I tried running both Light Feather and irrSpintz demos on my integrated graphics card back in the day and needless to say they both exited because of lack of support for older hardware) and a smaller community.

An overhaul for CImage (And possibly SColor) has been in planning for a long time now and when that's done it'll be the first step to next gen rendering for the Irrlicht engine.

Cheers

devsh · Post by **devsh** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:38 pm

I know saying this is dangerous, but... I think we need to consider adding dx11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYfec0PqJ00

More importantly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P25ukMJH ... re=related

Of course no one will be able to run those games, but dx 11 is going to be standard (on most computers) one day, and I think it'd be a good idea to take a look at.

9% of people with dx10 was a great reason not to immediately run after adding it, now however, after a year of computer sales windows 7 on the way and the dx11 release soon to come, I think adding dx10 or 11 would be the prudent thing to do, keeping irrlicht famous for a thing it's great at, a large number of rendering drivers

Or maybe with dx11 being as much of a fail as dx10...
the world will finally be set right and everyone will use PROPER APIs like openGL&&openCL&&CUDA(already people use CUDA) and proper EFFICIENT OS like Linux

P.S. and I'm not that biased since i had to install win xp to dev for source mod, and it takes 1 week to set up the drivers plus 2 to set up your IDEs and dlls are just beyond repair for me, i need like a dx9 SDK??? WTF??? 500mb of DL??? I get supplied with openGL + all the drivers for my HardWare on a 700mb linux disc while you have a dual layer DVD with vista that cant even do 10% of that!

yamashi · Post by **yamashi** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:15 pm

I know saying this is dangerous, but... I think we need to consider adding dx11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYfec0PqJ00

More importantly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P25ukMJH ... re=related

Of course no one will be able to run those games, but dx 11 is going to be standard (on most computers) one day, and I think it'd be a good idea to take a look at.

9% of people with dx10 was a great reason not to immediately run after adding it, now however, after a year of computer sales windows 7 on the way and the dx11 release soon to come, I think adding dx10 or 11 would be the prudent thing to do, keeping irrlicht famous for a thing it's great at, a large number of rendering drivers

Do you seriously believe that the video shows Crysis w/ Dx8 and Dx11...
As far as I know Crysis is only Dx9 and Dx10, they even stated on their website that they don't support Dx11...[/code]

P1SQ4M · Post by **P1SQ4M** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:34 pm

I'm not sure about that, I do know from testing things on my hardware (and this may be hardware specific) that Direct X9 produces about 1/10 times a higher frame rate than OpenGL. There are a fair number of new features being added, yes (tessellation...), so I was wondering if we were upgrading, it doesn't look like any time soon, but it seems the day will come. (I haven't run any tests on the DX10 frame rates)

devsh · Post by **devsh** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:06 pm

yeh but you compare openGL+windows not opengl+linux with dx+windows

dont you think microsoft will do worse performance for openGL????

Lonesome Ducky · Post by **Lonesome Ducky** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:47 pm

Mmm, surprise surprise! Who would've expected devsh to be here to diss directx?

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:09 pm

devsh wrote: P.S. and I'm not that biased since i had to install win xp to dev for source mod, and it takes 1 week to set up the drivers plus 2 to set up your IDEs and dlls are just beyond repair for me, i need like a dx9 SDK??? WTF??? 500mb of DL??? I get supplied with openGL + all the drivers for my HardWare on a 700mb linux disc while you have a dual layer DVD with vista that cant even do 10% of that!

okay seriously, what the gently caress are you trying to say there

EDIT: and, as an aside, the DirectCompute API added in DX11 is an abstraction layer, and runs under CUDA on nVidia cards

also, the 7 disc (and both 7 and Vista are single layer DVDs mind you) has all the drivers for my notebook, and the only thing for my desktop it was missing was the RaLink drivers because RaLink couldnt be assed to write proper drivers (the Vista drivers are bugged). and since my desktop is from before Vista, yes the Vista disc has all the drivers for it (again, ralink aside). XP disc is from 2001, you cant expect to have the drivers you need on that!

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:46 am

sigh. another one of these threads? if you like windows, use it. if you like linux, use it, if you like dos, the go freakin use it. Just try to rememebr that absolutely, and I mean absolutely, nobody else in the whole freakin world cares which one you use. noone.... not even the folks who tell you they do. They dont. This has got to be the second lamest, .. no wait, definately, the lamest arguement in the history of the world.
You know, i feel better now. Maybe you guys are on to something... hmm, start a debate about a lame subject, claim a higher intelligence based upon the <cough> facts that you can locate, and then stick to your guns, debating it with someone who has even less chance of changing their minds than you do....hmmmm. maybe....I'll have to see how this 'debate' <lol> goes. maybe it will be entertaining afterall...

Lonesome Ducky · Post by **Lonesome Ducky** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:59 am

*Sigh* Gotta love the Irrlicht community

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:02 am

Lonesome Ducky wrote:*Sigh* Gotta love the Irrlicht community

agreed. i showed this thread to the wife. She said her ladies website didnt seem so bad afterwards

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:28 am

Seven wrote:sigh. another one of these threads? if you like windows, use it. if you like linux, use it, if you like dos, the go freakin use it. Just try to rememebr that absolutely, and I mean absolutely, nobody else in the whole freakin world cares which one you use. noone.... not even the folks who tell you they do. They dont. This has got to be the second lamest, .. no wait, definately, the lamest arguement in the history of the world.
You know, i feel better now. Maybe you guys are on to something... hmm, start a debate about a lame subject, claim a higher intelligence based upon the <cough> facts that you can locate, and then stick to your guns, debating it with someone who has even less chance of changing their minds than you do....hmmmm. maybe....I'll have to see how this 'debate' <lol> goes. maybe it will be entertaining afterall...

its a great solution for boredom, I wouldnt bother with the man otherwise

and correcting misinformation is just ingrained into me. six years of working phone technical support for major computer manufacturers can be blamed