Poly count limit?
-
Athlon_Jedi
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:29 am
- Location: Mishawaka, In
Poly count limit?
i was wandering if anyone knew the poly count limit on the engine ie how many polys per model?
I read somewhere in the documentation that Irrlicht currently has no poly limit...
as anyone knows that doesn't mean it doesn't have one just that nobody knows what that limit is...
the collision detection tutorial should show you a minimum amount visable at a single time and from there you'll just have to feel it out I guess.
it's atleast 10000 visable I would say... stay around that much and you'r project will run awsome but I bet Irrlicht could handle 3 or 4 times that maybe... I don't know just didn't want to leave you hanging =P
as anyone knows that doesn't mean it doesn't have one just that nobody knows what that limit is...
the collision detection tutorial should show you a minimum amount visable at a single time and from there you'll just have to feel it out I guess.
it's atleast 10000 visable I would say... stay around that much and you'r project will run awsome but I bet Irrlicht could handle 3 or 4 times that maybe... I don't know just didn't want to leave you hanging =P
lol I cant load almost 90% of my medium to high poly models in irrlicht..
Ive tried everything...
So not sure how you got so many polys into the engine... lol..
In fact it takes over an entire min to load some of my models..
I asked the same question a while back about high poly models..
Id say if all you want to do is use quake models and low poly stuff then this engine is perfect for you... It runs quite smooth and ive found so far that its api is quite simple as well...
But if you wish to use high poly models then ( Just my opinion ) this engine just wont load them... But ill say that if and when It does load some of them it runs very quicky still and quite smoothly.. I was very shocked at this...
I think that in time if the way that 3d objects are loaded into this engine are tweeked some and some of the mild bugs are worked out, this engine has much potential....
Im not knocking this engine at all.. I just know that I can only load lower poly animated models (characters) into the engine.. If I stay around the low poly quake stuff like in the demos then im fine.. But If I try and load one of my own models set up properly to load, When the engine gets to the loading my model it lags and seems that its almost froze up and then after quite a waite the engine loads the model and all is fine... Im creating a program that cant afford to set back and appear to be froze up just to load one model... Yes my models are on the high poly side but they load fine in other engines...
Im just bummed because I liked the simplicity of this api and looked forward to useing it...
I plan on checking back on a regular basis for updates and I sure look forward to seeing this engine grow...
Ive tried everything...
So not sure how you got so many polys into the engine... lol..
In fact it takes over an entire min to load some of my models..
I asked the same question a while back about high poly models..
Id say if all you want to do is use quake models and low poly stuff then this engine is perfect for you... It runs quite smooth and ive found so far that its api is quite simple as well...
But if you wish to use high poly models then ( Just my opinion ) this engine just wont load them... But ill say that if and when It does load some of them it runs very quicky still and quite smoothly.. I was very shocked at this...
I think that in time if the way that 3d objects are loaded into this engine are tweeked some and some of the mild bugs are worked out, this engine has much potential....
Im not knocking this engine at all.. I just know that I can only load lower poly animated models (characters) into the engine.. If I stay around the low poly quake stuff like in the demos then im fine.. But If I try and load one of my own models set up properly to load, When the engine gets to the loading my model it lags and seems that its almost froze up and then after quite a waite the engine loads the model and all is fine... Im creating a program that cant afford to set back and appear to be froze up just to load one model... Yes my models are on the high poly side but they load fine in other engines...
Im just bummed because I liked the simplicity of this api and looked forward to useing it...
I plan on checking back on a regular basis for updates and I sure look forward to seeing this engine grow...
Hey,
I don't have any problems in loading high
poly models, I even tried one with over 50000,
was no problem , so , to prove you , here
are some screens , if you want to , I can send
you the demo.
I don't have any problems in loading high
poly models, I even tried one with over 50000,
was no problem , so , to prove you , here
are some screens , if you want to , I can send
you the demo.
Last edited by Pilotze on Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Das war jetzt erstmal der letzte fürs erste
Well I had a long post I was going to respond with but decided to not as im sure it would have upset many people useing this engine...
As ive said I like this engine a lot and would have loved to use it as its simple to use...
But im not going to play with models for days to figure out what it is that irrlicht dosnt like about them...
I dont think that a program that cost over 2000.00 dollars is wrong lol..
I think that the engine is in early stages and has many small loading bugs that im hoping will make the task of loading different format 3d files more simpler and less of a hastle...
As for those nice screen shots of yours .. lol
Your links are dead on my end...
And would sure love to know just how you got the engine to load high poly models..
Please dont tell me its a one mesh object with one texture..
I use multiple meshes in my objects and multiple textures and most of them are quite high in polys.. but ive created smaller very simple 3ds max files that wont load at all.. The textures are in the corect locations too just so that someone dosnt say that lol..
As long as I keep the meshes simple like the fx example then the engine is just fine...
My world gemometry is quite standard and most of it is of low poly stuff...
But when it comes to my characters I dont skimp , if its sopose to look like a human then I want for it too look like a human ... Not a bunch of square boxes with mitten hands lol..
Im sorry but I just dispise quake characters... Not talking bad about this engine I just get very nerved up when such a great engine as the quake engine was but using such poor grafics and poor character models..
Is why I work very hard to create realistic characters at the lowest poly count I can...
I wont name any other engines that load my modles as im not one to talk about things like that in others forums...
I think this engine is great but just has some bugs to be worked out..
Hell its a very new engine and I cant expect it to be perfect...
So with that said im sorry if I offended someone ...
Its just If I cant get my content to load in the engine then its just not going to work lol...
As ive said I like this engine a lot and would have loved to use it as its simple to use...
But im not going to play with models for days to figure out what it is that irrlicht dosnt like about them...
I dont think that a program that cost over 2000.00 dollars is wrong lol..
I think that the engine is in early stages and has many small loading bugs that im hoping will make the task of loading different format 3d files more simpler and less of a hastle...
As for those nice screen shots of yours .. lol
Your links are dead on my end...
And would sure love to know just how you got the engine to load high poly models..
Please dont tell me its a one mesh object with one texture..
I use multiple meshes in my objects and multiple textures and most of them are quite high in polys.. but ive created smaller very simple 3ds max files that wont load at all.. The textures are in the corect locations too just so that someone dosnt say that lol..
As long as I keep the meshes simple like the fx example then the engine is just fine...
My world gemometry is quite standard and most of it is of low poly stuff...
But when it comes to my characters I dont skimp , if its sopose to look like a human then I want for it too look like a human ... Not a bunch of square boxes with mitten hands lol..
Im sorry but I just dispise quake characters... Not talking bad about this engine I just get very nerved up when such a great engine as the quake engine was but using such poor grafics and poor character models..
Is why I work very hard to create realistic characters at the lowest poly count I can...
I wont name any other engines that load my modles as im not one to talk about things like that in others forums...
I think this engine is great but just has some bugs to be worked out..
Hell its a very new engine and I cant expect it to be perfect...
So with that said im sorry if I offended someone ...
Its just If I cant get my content to load in the engine then its just not going to work lol...
Well ,
do I missunderstand
you? Do I get this totally
wrong?
I'm sure you knowCinema4d ,
right? Well I own this Software ,
and there's an example , a human ,
I saved it as *.3ds and loaded it 5
times in Irrlicht , those models make
about 130000 polys together ,
well , it's working...
Sorry , if I don't get the point in
what you're saying , or are your
'high-ploy-models' different from mine?
[EDIT]
I found out the max number for a single
mesh , it's 65535 polys.
...I'm starting to like this discussion
do I missunderstand
you? Do I get this totally
wrong?
I'm sure you knowCinema4d ,
right? Well I own this Software ,
and there's an example , a human ,
I saved it as *.3ds and loaded it 5
times in Irrlicht , those models make
about 130000 polys together ,
well , it's working...
Sorry , if I don't get the point in
what you're saying , or are your
'high-ploy-models' different from mine?
[EDIT]
I found out the max number for a single
mesh , it's 65535 polys.
...I'm starting to like this discussion
Das war jetzt erstmal der letzte fürs erste
Well im glad you are lol...
Im sorry like I said im far from knocking this engine...
I happen to like the api and ease of use more then any engine ive used yet....
And if youd like to explain how you get your models to load then ill be glad to listen..
Its just rather upsetting to have your models load very slowly..
I reduced the polys in max and they load a bit faster but still it lags to a halt and sticks on the loading of the mesh and then after about 20 to 30 seconds (an improvement from over an entire minute) and then loads the mesh..
Ive found the engine to be very picky is all..
So maybe your doing something different with your models then me..
And id be glad to hear about it..
Ill say it again..... Im not here to knock the engine it dosnt load my models efficiently.
If there is a way to load my models faster then im all ears...
How about those screen shots.. lol
Im sorry like I said im far from knocking this engine...
I happen to like the api and ease of use more then any engine ive used yet....
And if youd like to explain how you get your models to load then ill be glad to listen..
Its just rather upsetting to have your models load very slowly..
I reduced the polys in max and they load a bit faster but still it lags to a halt and sticks on the loading of the mesh and then after about 20 to 30 seconds (an improvement from over an entire minute) and then loads the mesh..
Ive found the engine to be very picky is all..
So maybe your doing something different with your models then me..
And id be glad to hear about it..
Ill say it again..... Im not here to knock the engine it dosnt load my models efficiently.
If there is a way to load my models faster then im all ears...
How about those screen shots.. lol
The max polycount limit of 65535 is removed in IrrlichtNX which uses 32bit indices...
http://irrlichtnx.mmdevel.de
http://irrlichtnx.mmdevel.de
Hardwarespecs in signatures suck !
65535...heh, that's also the epr mesh limit for *.3ds, if I remember well...
130k? wow...and it loaded in irrlicht...then definitely, dogs, if he loaded that you're creating a bottle neck somewhere, often is not just the polygon count, but other 3d features, or how you code or load it.
I was at a comercial game company, and 100k was our hugest level..indeed, we could have optimized much more. Of course, todays levels can raise higher, but al ldepedns on platform, and also, other stuff.
even if Irrlicht just loads well 30k tris terrain, and lets say 3 or 4 characters of 1500/2000, it'd be yet to make any indy o shareware game with even money gain...
BTW, a ~60k, or even 7k tris model,(speaking about characters) is usually a non well optimized model. I'd go for normal maps, and low pol version bellow it, if the artistic purpose is how a very hi res model.
Yep, not normal maps yet in irrlicht....the fact is I keep prefering good textures over a 2000 - 3500 triangles models...do that , and do it well with just the tris and a texture, and then start thinking in bump maps and stuff...those are the specs of Unreal Tournament 2003, and I like those models a lot...
Anyway, I didn't know irrlicht could load so high count models.
130k? wow...and it loaded in irrlicht...then definitely, dogs, if he loaded that you're creating a bottle neck somewhere, often is not just the polygon count, but other 3d features, or how you code or load it.
I was at a comercial game company, and 100k was our hugest level..indeed, we could have optimized much more. Of course, todays levels can raise higher, but al ldepedns on platform, and also, other stuff.
even if Irrlicht just loads well 30k tris terrain, and lets say 3 or 4 characters of 1500/2000, it'd be yet to make any indy o shareware game with even money gain...
BTW, a ~60k, or even 7k tris model,(speaking about characters) is usually a non well optimized model. I'd go for normal maps, and low pol version bellow it, if the artistic purpose is how a very hi res model.
Yep, not normal maps yet in irrlicht....the fact is I keep prefering good textures over a 2000 - 3500 triangles models...do that , and do it well with just the tris and a texture, and then start thinking in bump maps and stuff...those are the specs of Unreal Tournament 2003, and I like those models a lot...
Anyway, I didn't know irrlicht could load so high count models.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
The reason I say jusrt over 4G is that 65,535 poly's is 2^16, so if NX used 32 bit indicies I'd expect it to be 2^32. Processors are starting to come in 64bit variaty nowadays, the figure for 64 bit would be:The max polycount limit of 65535 is removed in IrrlichtNX which uses 32bit indices...
18,446,744,073,709,551,616
Now that is one big number
in general, theres no polygoncount-limit. but there are limits for the size of a single mesh.
these limits are determined by several factors.
the first is the low-level-drawing methods used (drawindexedtriangle-strips/lists etc.) which exist in opengl/directx. they either use 16bit indexes (65k tris) or 32bit indexes (4 billion tris). in irrlicht, only the 16-bit versions of trianglelists and fans are implemented, in nx the 32bit versions are implemented, too. additionally nx has triangle-strips and quadlists/quadstrips (which are opengl only) added.
the second factor is the file-format. as was already said, there are fileformats that only support 65k tris for one model/mesh/whatever.
the third factor then are the loaders for the different file-formats, which have to support 32bit tris, too (i dont know the status of the irrlicht loaders/formats regarding this).
the last factor then is your graphicscard. for directx, a check for the maximum number of tris that can be drawn with one call is done (and an error message is displayed). for opengl no such check is done so it prolly just ignores the ones it cannot draw.
in general, id say 65k polys for one model should be enough for nearly everything. if you really have more than 65k polys in one object i would test the performance of 16bit vs 32bit and maybe split the object (for 100,000 tris you send 400kbytes instead of 200kbytes of indexes to the graphicscard, which isnt that much but it could hit performance). but if you could use trianglestrips instead of trianglelists, then you would need to send even less data to the card so that 32bit strips against 16bit lists wouldnt hit performance.
these limits are determined by several factors.
the first is the low-level-drawing methods used (drawindexedtriangle-strips/lists etc.) which exist in opengl/directx. they either use 16bit indexes (65k tris) or 32bit indexes (4 billion tris). in irrlicht, only the 16-bit versions of trianglelists and fans are implemented, in nx the 32bit versions are implemented, too. additionally nx has triangle-strips and quadlists/quadstrips (which are opengl only) added.
the second factor is the file-format. as was already said, there are fileformats that only support 65k tris for one model/mesh/whatever.
the third factor then are the loaders for the different file-formats, which have to support 32bit tris, too (i dont know the status of the irrlicht loaders/formats regarding this).
the last factor then is your graphicscard. for directx, a check for the maximum number of tris that can be drawn with one call is done (and an error message is displayed). for opengl no such check is done so it prolly just ignores the ones it cannot draw.
in general, id say 65k polys for one model should be enough for nearly everything. if you really have more than 65k polys in one object i would test the performance of 16bit vs 32bit and maybe split the object (for 100,000 tris you send 400kbytes instead of 200kbytes of indexes to the graphicscard, which isnt that much but it could hit performance). but if you could use trianglestrips instead of trianglelists, then you would need to send even less data to the card so that 32bit strips against 16bit lists wouldnt hit performance.