new software for animating skeletal weight models--> cal3

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:42 am

...And is free, gnu open source. I never know if that means u can use the game u made with character animations made in that tool, exported to cal3d, and used in the game u may sell as shwareware. I have not clear some gnu concepts.

BTW, not sure if it rquires java jre 1.5 and java3d, not sure.

The tool seems quite good, dunno if allows a total control over weights, like cfx or blender, but , it seems it does. I have not tested.

It seems dumb easy to handle. So, those not wanting to use much time in learning Blender, can give this a try, but is to go to the cal3d route. Imho, then the cal3d laoder someone is making is taking a huge interest: you export now cal3d with Max, Blender, and this new one.

That means....irrlicht would (is the loader ended?) have TWO weight formats to import (most engines don't have even one! ) , besides md2 and md3!!! A dream for the artist.

http://www.phenomatics.com/opensource/page/CAMen.htm

EDIT: is not just gnu, is gpl.So, a bit mor efreedome. I suppose the models that u ouput ...can be used in comercial projects, but not sure.

Not that i'm gonna use it, I have XSI Foundation, and can handle well Blender and Cfx, but this one is not only free, is open source; some good java coder can even improve it as sources are open under that gnu gpl license.Imho, matches a lot with a project like irrlicht, mor enow that there's a cal3d loader.

heck, I said I were going to post less to dedicate myself to my 3d projects and here I am..I have no solution

Enjoy!

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:54 am

YAY!

Look carefully....

http://www.phenomatics.com/opensource/i ... mo_s17.jpg

it DOES have vertex level skinweights control!!!!!

i reaaaally start thinking this worth really a look (not me, as I gotta justify my huge money in xsi -glups- besides xsi surely is better as has joint pinning (not present in blender, nor cfx,neither milkshape) ) ...and really, really interesting for irrlicht users that cal3d irrlicht loader.

I mean, is WAY better if u have not only and blender as the possible tools, and not only x, but more tools, and another format.Some people like me will keep using *.x , and other tools (that huge package) , but some, can't afford it, have tried but can't understand Blender, or simply, just want a animate a bit, and not learn a huge complex ui and package like blender or XSI.

This looks very much like Character Fx ...but free!!!

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:06 am

Wrote the man to ask some important technical questions and make a suggestion.

I have no direct interest on it as I have 3 packages to export vertex weighted and boned animations, but I am digging this for you.

I'll inform more later on...

...hmmm..edfinitely I am not testing it. Seems reaaally interesting, but I already have my animationpackages.I'd test it quickly to inform/review for u, but... it needs to be built, with the JDK 1.5 from java and certain version of Java3d.

Sorry, too much hassle for this non coder that i am , and also, have little time and already 3 working animation packages and knowledge for em. So, anyone interested, build and try it. If some one puts the built Jar or whatever, I may think about downloading the JRE 1.5 (I suppose I'll need the way recent java run time 1.5 ...what now makes me think...IS MULTI PLATFORM...lol, is Java, how did not I thought before...) and then executing the jar file, so that I could tell if there's any flaw or disadvantage, but is looking way good for now.

IMHO, the more packages available free for irrlicht, the better.

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:10 pm

ok, got a reply :

free for open source projects. But not possible to use in comercial ones.(those can use blender, character fx, etc)

It's not very clear to me, he may clarify, but seems it has joint pinning. No ik, but for me, fk+joint pinning is more than enough.

It imports OBJ, but through an external utility that converts to a format readable by the animator.

It exports as cal3d.

And judging from the screens, seems is an extremely easy to use weights and bones animator!

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:41 pm

I think I saw on a Cal3D website somewhere that the Cal3D library included a cloth simulator, is that supported by this modeller? I'd like to offer a modelling program on my site that people can use for free apart from Blender or GMax. Hopefully to cut down on the amount of peeps using warez as you never know

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:38 am

Hi, Tyn.

[Nice website u have...forums and all..very good design.

I dunno much bout ur game, but seems your determined to do it and it seems the way of doing is the right one...I'll have a look. Pitty I'm already involved in too many stuff

I'll dig there bout a summary of the story and environment fo it all at ur site. Can't collaborate, but to follow from time to time the development and how it evolves.]

I'd expect a possible include of physics at some point, maybe other advanced features...maybe. But haven't read bout cloth in any place of the site nor in what he answered me.

BTW, cloth is animated with good old bones and careful weighting

is not something worries me much, neither phyiscs...thee are loads of libraries in games doing that stuff at company, it was made witha comercial very good one, and in indy projects, people use free libraries..in the worst case, a good animator can perfectly animate cloth like meshes, is just mor ework,and do th edeath animations..."by hand" ...I'm way more worried bout features like ik, fk, good weighting and joint pinning. Give that to me and I animate whatever !

(of course, is not as easy doing so in blender, than in Max or xsi...)

Mocap does not impress me....and if not well used, the points where different mocap files join is noticed...of course it looks uber natural, but a good animator can go even further...some times a realistic anim doesn't cut in what is a game...BTW, larrgely used in pro AAA games, I can have the liberty of not using that mosnter things in the shareware or free projects I'm involved at the moment...

Character animation tools are rare...bones and weight supporting ones are as rare as till recently, only blender available...with the addon of joint pinning.... for free, this one,(but haven notrecieving the reply...re-reading it I think he meant it can be easily added as is in the algorythm) or using empties with blender (not my fav solution for this specific problem, I must say)

But remember: this cal3d tool can't be used for comercial projects (in which I use to be mainly involved, anyway, me=xsi, you know XD) and only will work if the cal3d works...whcih neither I know...if only the problem remaining on that loader was an axe change but the whol thing keeps the animation and weights/deformation ok, wouldn't it just be a pair of code-made axe 90º rotations once loaded in irrlicht...? I dunno... heh, if the author of the loader see this, please,pop up...

For what i see, if this works, we'd have, for rmaking smooth joint bending human models

*** Gmax with all its power, with md3 (bones lost for code, though the artist work with em and with weights to aquire the good stuff) Legally usable if used the plugin from mojo.gmaxsupport.com

(md3, if used as single piece model, does it nicely, if used chunked format, not, in my opinion, the 50% automatic calculated mesh fussion between mesh objects/parts (legs..) is by no means up to the standards of quality today, but just snapshotting it as single-keyframe-mesh, alla md2 style...can do very well, I've tested with other engines.)

*** Blender, using its exporters to direct x or the Jox 1.2 modified x exporter, or the cal3d one. usable for comercial, too.

*** this cal3d character animation tool, using the cal3d exporter. Not usable for comercial, but here there are a lot of open source and freeware game projects

(and comercial tools...ANY exporting as v8 or later *.x...

.That is, practically all high end world. )

Quite a lot, compared to other engines

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:09 am

BTW, cloth is animated with good old bones and careful weighting

Not entirely true for Cal3D

It has a cool little option which allows you to assign all vertexes on a model that aren't connected to a bone/rig to a cloth simulation system built into Cal3D. As a result all the user has todo is add in the necessary colllision to prevent the cloth elements going through the actual model as Cal3D doesn't handle this internally. Check out the Cally demo on the Cal3D site. The character's cape is handled by this system although it lacks the aforementioned collision

It's quite cool anyway and a heck of alot better than animating it manually

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:43 am

That's what I was thinking of, I thought there was something in there to dynamically simulate cloth, such as wind blowing etc. Is it easy to use? I suppose if I could manipulate the verticies on the fly like the water scene node does I could ripple it with a sine wave formula.

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:05 am

As i said in my reply, all you have todo is provide the collision system for the cloth (Otherwise it'll go through the model). The rest is handled by Cal3D. Just get the Cally demo for an example of it in action (minus the collision...)