all time fighting is quite boring....
Your idea is simply great
Trust me, ppl, is thousands more inmersive what he speaks about than a diablo2 in 3d, which is what I am seeing all the time in 3d rol games...heck, what has happened with the real magic of it...
Complex AI, and building your world, your character, more life like situations...that's imho the perfect game.
I really, really like that type of game. Unluckily, comitted to do artwork to many other projects. I need the money...
But if...I see it in an advanced stage (when there's actually a game, I'm tired of work for projects that end dying) I may help a bit. specially with concept art for races.(Is where I excell really, though I do anything of artwork in a game. )
I wont lie you. I see it too ambitious, but as you stated is how it should be done. I wouldn't remove a comma.
The prob is u need an army of 2d/3d artist, u can't magine the load of work of doing all those characters...true is one thing : In most 3d packages (even Blender) u only need to animate once, as u share the animations later. "Only" asigning the skeleton, and creating the meshes is needed. And in most cases, just u create 7 or 8 meshes (Counting on male/female human/creatures. as a start, at least) as later on u go changing the textures (skins)
Usually, those meshes should be low res modelling: u want surely to be able to see a complex world and sometimes scenes like a party. Of course, there's lod and that, but i suppose a reasonable polygon count is good there.
I mean, there are tricks. Even though, a huge load of work.
And....yep, you got it right,,,people tend to think it'll never see the light.,For example, u announce it now, but the game wont start till spring 2005...that will make most artists step back. (funnily, with some luck by then I'll be partially free)
Other thing is...don't get sad if no artist join at ur call now. First, this is by no means an artists forums. It lacks strongly on that, while the ppl is really gentle, that makes it comfortable even for a lone artist here
Secondly, we artists are tired of see mmorpgs or rpgs born and die even not in a day but 3 posts later...and that's not the feared thing...but when u do 3 animated and texture races (a LOAD of work) and the project dies then. U get *very* angry...
But good news is that...when an artist see an RPG fully working, even if it's using place holder graphics, houses are cubes, the poor coder guy grabbed an md2 (please, don't use that, use *.x
) from polycount, terrain is crap, trees are cones, etc....but it works, it has the inventory, it has the ai, path finding, it's a game, just needed a "new paint" all over it...is IDEAL for asrtists...tehre's a load of em that so much love the medieval like (i hope we're talking bout that environment) characters, nordic mythology and all...
Additionally, if u get a kickass artist (like kickass concept artist, hehe) U mount a site but with real taste, inmersive site or at least, trying not to do the arial 35 in bold, huge scroll bars frames and say hey I'm 15 and doing a mmorpg, well, the showing of some great art in some point , use to do snowballing, and artists think the project must be good to have attracted that guy
Is our first clue. Artists don't look that much at othe rthings than that and if it looks professional, if it has been there quite a time, if it gets updates at elast a month or so...etc.
A good tip :
Blender people is quite voluntarious, they like these type of worlds more than usual 3d artists, they're generous people in its huge majority, they're usually gentle recieving people. I see many doing non profit projects. For the main Blender philosophy, working for fun fits them way more than perhaps Max or Maya people.
If you at some point (posting this exact paragraphs u posted to start the thread.) you announce it to see if artists at Blender comunity get engaged with it, I'd rather advice to do in Elysiun, not Blender.org. As that last is the oficial one, only for developing Blender, mainly.
And even at Elysiun...you have several options (but never double post, post just in one section, one thread.) NEws and Chat forum at elysiun is very crowded, but too much desire to fight there, if someone wanna start a fight, it may ruin your thread. Putting stuff as u did, politely and realistically, well, that exact announce, should not bring wars. perhaps so it cathces the bigger audience. Most blender people focus in a section, but news and chat is more common. perhaps more frequeneted.
You're more likely to find people that knows the deal of modelling for real time 3d games, in the Game Engine section. Why? they code for Blender Game engine .It's very low in performace, and can't do many of the stuff that Irrlicht can do. But OF COURSE, never, ever say so, or say, hey wouldn't you want to do your artwork for a more capable game engine...? They'r proud of it, and I respect that.
Just say the target engine is Irrlicht. Those a bit tired of game engine will join, or wanting more game power, or just that they want to work simultaneoulsy in 2 or 3 projects (frequent in Blender)
In Blender General I think it's for...a bit of all, too, but surely more for questions bout blender...U may post there, I dunno very well of the purpose of certain forums. Is more or less crowded.
Indeed...i think I'd definitely post in News and chat. yep. Load your self with patience (most Blender users have a load of patience, indeed, are ideal for long projects, loving more the proccess of it than the very final result. very different than a Max user...Damn it, looks like I'm defining a Blenderhead like if it were a hobbit, and that's far from it...! LOL )
So if a guy jumps with desires of fight, even if he calls u ugly, never, ever, loose ur nerves (it's easy after certain insults) probaly is much less risk than if u posted thi sat flipcode or gamedev (they'd probaly EAT you) , but...imho one of ur biggest hopes is some buddies (even if the huge % of em don't get interested, blender comunity has been able to kill servers, they're massive
) ..fall in love with ur projects. As u have explianed, even thinking is a quimera, as u sounded realistically, some blender artists could perfectly take the risk. If I had an stable job and that typical situation, I'd take it. And I have been in all sorts of stuff, from a mod, indy games, AAA game companies, all u can imagine. So, there's hopes u find some guy/woman like this. A pair of artists could help u get it up and running, once there's seen something nice, other artist will join, sure. The difficult part is reach there.
Please, be selective. In that, i don't loose time really, I mean, I can help u only in that, is just seen some jpgs and saying if it worth that guy. Why I say this ? It may sound cruel, it may sound arrogant when u got nothing yet, but ur idea, ur skills, and what u already have and are able to do, is something u should not throw DIRECTLY to the bin for bad graphics. If u obtain a character per 2 weeks, is WAY better than 15 crap models with bad proportions in those 15 days. Trust me. There's nothing that makes another artists (and many gamers) run away scared than bad art....
I have aquired (and at a high price, don't u think I'm happy..) skills in every area of game art. I can tell u who would really worth to pick from the samples u may receive. SOme selection is done even in mods...ppl may think is strange, but imho is esential.
For example (never say this in Blender comunities) I have observed majority of Blender users (indeed, majority of any 3d package users) are quite good at designing, modelling buildings, objects, environments. But characters, human characters...u have to look for them with a loupe. I mean, good ones.
There are great ones I remember now. Sutabi (already aware of real time 3d game specs, and imho quite good, and he has a real sense of proportion and quality. he knows also uv mapping stuff in blender, and texturing. He has been involved in some project like this. Which could be bad, as usually is a dead path, and he may aware of it...)
Another, which is a high pro, working for PS games with Blender, is TorQ. Man if u grabbed a guy like one of these too for characters...
There are great animators like harkyman, but he's too involved in character animation improves (we need him to improve Blender
)
great general artists, that surely can do ANYTHING,(but beware, focused on high res rendering, they'd need some training in low, pol..if u know just one guy with low pol knowledge he'll show the way to the others) like the fantastic ENV....guys that are expert in machinery and cad like modelling (I just can't imagine the wonder of a Catapult modelled and textured by AllTaken...wow. )
Other genius like Andy, (dunno if it was @ndy)
JoOngle (he'd a strongly convinced (I think he's from Holland) Blender defender. he dreams with Blender getting in the top. The fact of using Blender as the tool for a game that can do good c++ based games, may attract him, if he has the time. He has a job and in his job he was able to convince boss to use blender. )
Well, many others . These are for sure freaking good. if u indeed could join this all, heck, I may even feel the need of joining , there's people that have amazed Cg Talk artists with their art, among those...
My main aim would be Sutabi, though. I have spoken to him once or too by Pm messages. He seems quite new to mid-low pol for games, but he seems to know it all by genetics or something! A really safe bet.
You may say I am writting too much, and too much about art.
I usually don't give a word for these posts, and just let em die, as I know how it all will end.
But I think THAT specific idea, that gameplay you thought abaout (don't let people convince u in other way) is terrific and really rare to find. Blender artists are also: friend of medieval fantasy, and likely to enjoy a type of game where tehre's an inmersive world, with more "life" , and less fights. they're much more of them in that boat, I think.
Even so, chances are u may also get zero response, or response from bad artists (pm me for getting in meail contact, so I can give u advice...never grab a bad artist for that project....) ...is th emost usual, so don't get sad if so. But imho in Blender comunity, Elysiun, is where u have by far more chances. U only have to be specially careful with human modellers , texturers and animators.(Sutabi is a safe bet, torQ too. ) The rest will most probably do well.
I would have NEVER posted this if I wouldn't think u have possibilities. Of course, I count on the typical stuff: u get tired in some weeks, u find no help, u get burnt, etc. But if there's one type of game I'd give courage to continue is this type.
Also, because u stated u have stuff done, quite a lot, u'r not too young
, etc.
But this type of game need a lot of art...and the key is ...it even has to be good art...don't mind if later on u use dirty tricks to make each artist hour count much mor e(like reusing animations and meshes just changing textures, etc) but the little or lot that is done, must be good.
May I sound crazy. I'm not. Indeed, is not because I have said it, but I think is a good advice
Once u have some *big* stuff rolling, I wouldn't mind doing concept art (But I would *not* share the area with other concept artist I don't like people thinking I made the art of other guy/woman. Of course yep if other does buildings concept art, and/or another the machinery, items, objects. All this I speak hand drawn concept art, that stuff u put to make the site more attractive , ppl interested in game, and modeller witha clear idea what they gotta make. But I'd have to see a LOT more, practically a functional game rolling even with some md2/md3(u want find *.x, other than my dwarf(pure crap I made in some hours as a joke to friends, is included in irrlicht) and Psionic ones, u may deal with that for just ur code)) , some buidlings that could be well cubes, trees-cones, objects that can be plain spheres but where ppl see that that's meant to be certain item, and u have the inventory, etc. It may all look like random crap, but ppl need to see the game, and that the main problem then is "disguise" it, paint over it with graphics. Not that u need an eon of time to do the coding yet
Most good Max, maya artists I know only do stuff for others for money. very rarely, for a project they like a lot. But rarely is a game. Blender comunity *seems* to be an exception. And there are 'some' qualified guys there.
Hope this helped a bit.
Oh, forgot. So that u see i know what I'm talking about, and is not the advice of a random crazy lad, some shots...But to do 3d artowrk for ur project, I am one of those that gets into once the game is practically done in code, at least in a functional way, and even more, only I get into if the other character art is something I could have done , or is better than mine. I never get into a project where I have to do art where the other done art(I mean character art, with buildings and objects I'm not that picky, but a desproportioned house with the characters or trees, would scare me
) is crappy. So... chances in my case are pretty low. Not picky aither of mix my concept art with not very top 3d art...but then again, if the 3d artwork or texturing work is too bad, I neither do concept. The idea and way of planning seems of the quality needed, for now, though.
I am now overloaded of comercial tiny projects stuff. Can't really do more...But at night, I get really tired of screen, and I draw for fun. I may do concept art there. But i'd have to see way much more to use time in anything. Much more. (it's not arrogance, please. Just realism, and having been in many projects, and see em die. I have even eaten myself a fully rigged and animated model! ...grunt...)
The stuff I can show, anyway, is, in drawings, often evencopyrighted, in 3d, not professional as is the 3d I *can* show, and I don't do indy stuff since quite a time, and what I did at those times, was woking same time at an aaa company, or in a mod, so not too good, you arrive home tired.
The first one was used for a aaa game, that was actually distributed. I can show only as portfolio.
concept art -drawings.
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/0640BKK34CH3/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/0TS666OP2225/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/L75JKU7LE532/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/U02110F7O0U9/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/7V5PG65OMM0E/p.gif
3d stuff, etc...
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/5B8C2KMNFXH2/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/8TT8NL607N37/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/3Z3ZOA7709V1/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/6V3VOA587RM3/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/QZ587XK263ME/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/3JH7Q307209O/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/HM080D8Z6Q45/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/8791PE93X76C/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/G64CS0T2F6SU/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/692V6D9QFMTJ/p.jpeg
and this was my very first 3d stuff, back in '96, when we used 3d STUDIO for Ms -DOS, most people have not even known that one....
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/JNEU87P9ZX9C/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/0SJR52G559CO/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/Q79C3H7GFIYO/p.jpeg
Hi res stuff, not for low pol games. but left in initial stage. May continue months later (may do some normal maps with this one) :
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/P4TC0R3L045A/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/7XH9M620V37E/p.jpeg
I post all of it so fo ru to know that I can give advice for the samples they send u. Even if I don't collaborate a single bit, I'd like for once, that a rol/medieval game was ACTUALLY done, and done exactly that way.
if u don't like anything u read, then I have lost a lot of time...(once again)...ugh....
PD: I respect those wanting continuous fights in these games, but actually, don't do a "popular" game, do a good game. It'll by force become popular, if it's any good....customized Never Winter Nights matches had this, and even the solo standard game, and that was sooo nice to play, and a bit of that inmersion. Of course, 5 years, and the people involved...wow..I have the original game, man the credits pages is longer thant th e(way long) manual..well, is a way of speaking , but u get it. Don't take me wrong, ppl, I enjoy a Diablo game, even an UT2k3, but this is done again and again...is much mor eoriginal and inmersive what he's proposing.
Blender ppl, or a good portion of them, would find that attractive, even if they don't join.
) playing the game. Each player can accomplish a couple of hundreds quests, how many quests do you need? Sure, you can have quests that takes a long time to get finished or constantly add new ones, but 1st are for most players boring and 2nd is realy difficult without repeating the same stories again and again. Maybe you have a plan for that.
?
