VS 11 Express and native Win32 development

[CuteAlien]

I guess many here use the VisualStudio Express versions. Microsoft decided to remove the ability to develop typical Desktop applications from their free version for Visual Studio in the next version. From VS 11 on they will only allow development of Metro applications. Well that's unless they decide one day to remove that as well because they have the next API to sell I guess. Metro applications can not access the native Win32 API except through wrappers. Some API's where wrappers are missing will no longer be accessible. Haven't seen one for OpenGL yet for example, also DirectX 9 won't be supported anymore. Native libraries - like Irrlicht - will no longer be accessible. Also from what I've read so far Metro applications can't just be distributed as easy as .exe's anymore. It seems you either have to sign them somehow (haven't been able to find out more about that yet) or they must be be sold from some Microsoft shop where verification does actually cost. All in all it means writing free applications which you can then just put on your website at no cost is no longer possible with Visual Studio.

Some news covering this:
http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... windows-8/
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/24/micr ... ktop-apps/

They also decided to remove support for Windows XP by the way for the free as well as the full versions. You can't even compile for Windows XP anymore to support people still having that (currently around 50% of all systems worldwide). But due to lots of protests they already mentioned that they'll reconsider that decision (whatever that means - guess we will see).

They _do_ still offer VS 2010 express for free. But it likely won't get updates, like the new c++11 features for example, nor do they tell how long they keep that support up.

What this means for Irrlicht: I think we need to add newer DX drivers first before we can run on Metro. So it will probably be a while until we can support this, although maybe some people with enough interest in Metro make it happen faster. Until then you can not use VS 2011 Express with Irrlicht. You can use VS 2010 Express or VS 2011 professional. Or you can use - even with newest c++ features and continued support - an alternative development environment like Code::Blocks or Eclipse in combination with gcc and MinGW. Maybe time to check-out the alternatives (and why not just develop for Linux anyway while you're at it...) :-)

edit (12. June 2012):
Microsoft decided to release a version that allows Desktop development again.
And they mentioned that they will patch VS 11 later on to allow XP support again.

[hendu]

You should sticky this at the top of Bug reports.

[Mel]

Or tell MS to get lost, drop the DX support and stick to Open GL. That kind of behavior really pisses me off. Sorry

[REDDemon]

oh yeah.my Next PC will be Linux. that's all. stop using DX and turn to GL only

OMG first lack of good POSIX API support, then lack of good GL support (luckily someone else invented cygwin and GLEW)....

[darksmaster923]

Why microsoft

[Virion]

I've not been using Windows for a year now. Mostly on linux and mac. Microsoft can GTFO

[pilesofspam]

This is a pain. I do all of my development under Linux, but I like to keep it portable in case there's a reason for, well, anyone else to use it. For example, my son's pre-K class was studying the solar system back when I was doing 'Planet Wars' about 2 years ago. Well, I took the solar system I had created, changed over to a FPS camera, and labelled underneath all of the planets with text billboards. Then I compiled it under VS express so the kids could fly around the solar system and look at the planets. Of course, the school only has windows based PCs.

I've got Cygwin and MinGW (both with code:blocks) installed, so I guess I've got alternatives, and, what can you expect from a free Microsoft product. But I am disappointed in this decision.

[Mel]

I don't understand this step of Microsoft. People isn't switching to MS Win8 any time soon, and Metro style is, frankly, a bad joke. I have no other "word" for it. Their Office suit is still a desktop application, not even they believe in their Metro style. It is an act of cynism.

Still, people have worked with free alternatives until the first release of the visual studio express editions, so, i guess it is nothing to worry really about.

[Cube_]

And yet another point for my list callde "Why I hate microsoft"
Anyway, I do all compiling under linux, actually, I do EVERYTHING under linux (except steam and games on steam)

[hendu]

(except steam and games on steam)

You'll have that too some time later, if Phoronix is to be believed.

[Cube_]

really?

you are refering to this? no?
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... inux&num=1
I am waiting for it to come true. then I have no need for windows (well mostly no need, wills till have a partition in case I need something that doesn't run udner wine)

[hendu]

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... deln&num=1

This is a bit more recent article on it, but yes.

[mongoose7]

That's it? Just the source engine?

What about Deus Ex, Battlefield, MW, Batman, TR, ....

I know, this is the Counter Strike forum, isn't it? Yes, that must be it.

[hendu]

Funny, I didn't know Eidos, EA et al were now owned by Valve ^

Seriously, did you expect everyone to come at once, when even Mac releases are still rare.

[Cube_]

meh, why don't they make stuff the right way from the beginning?