I switched to Ogre

[Guest]

Too bad there isn't a big variety of good OS engines though!

LOOOL!!

...

yes, there is gnu/linux .. and the rest

[AssiDragon]

Uh I meant open source. Sorry about the ambiguity .

But yeah. There isn't much from OS operating system either. It seems there isnt much from ANYTHING good opensource, though.

[Guest]

i dont know the community for myself but i heard from a lot of places that the ogre community is _very_ noob-unfriendly and not really helpful in general...

ok, i dont like noobs that ask the same question over and over, but if they ask something thats not so easy to solve as all other noob-questions, i try to help them, because thats what i would want from others too. if you dont get any help you can get nowhere, so i think it would be useless to try ogre without the possibility to get help from the community.

but i could still ask kotormaniac hehe i know you use ogre for a time already

I'm a noob, well at least compared to alot of people, and I've had all my questions answered so far. I've seen no hostility towards anyone. I don't find the Ogre community unfriendly at all.

It's true it can be a little more difficult to get started in Ogre with setting up the directory structure and dependencies for your projects, specially if you choose to compile the engine rather than download a binary. Also Ogre's modular design makes things a little more complicated compared with Irrlicht but you can ignore alot of it or minimize it to such an extent that it becomes nearly as compact and simple as Irrlicht with a little effort and experimentation. You definitely don't have to be an expert in object oriented C++ to use Ogre, just the basics will get your through for the most part.

Out of the box, so to speak, Irrlicht is very easy to make work. However once I began trying to do my own stuff with it outside what the sample applications were demonstrating I was completely lost. My main gripe with Irrlicht is the docs. Just having an API reference isn't noob friendly enough. Tutorials that explain the concept of the engine that hold your hand through the main aspects would be great. Ogre already has this.

I think Ogre is a cleaner, more logical approach to learn about 3D engines compared to Irrlicht. That's just my opinion of course. I'm not trying to sway anyone here but since my post spawned a few replies I figured I'd add a little more.

bas,

That's another thing. The Ogre demos and the user projects featured on the homepage are really impressive. I think that's a pretty good indication of the quality of an engine.

[saigumi]

I'm from the camp of not knowing anything about 3d and little about C++ when I first started.

My first attempted API was Ogre. After 3 days of stuggling to get the STL_Port library compiled to be about to compile Ogre to use it was a major demotivator.

I then tried the Nebula device... with little success.

Then a few others.

I settled here for the simplicity.

I did try Ogre again a few months ago to run through the tutorials and ran into the exact same STL_Port problems that required a day of trying to remember the problem.

Yes, it's a powerful tool and can do quite a lot. It's just not my cup of tea.

[DexteR]

I DOWNLOADED ORGE!

Just to see and learn how ORGE integrates other plug-ins.

"I use IRRLICHT as my main GRAPHICS API the
scenenode implementation of IRRLICHT is much
more easier to learn and to follows."

This is just my opinion, but ORGE is good too.

[haribo]

For my part, i am patiently waiting for the full blown .NET version of Irrlicht. What i am seeing so far, i love it! It seriously lacks behind the c++ version though. I looked at OGRE as well, looked at many others. I learned programming with c#, and i refuse to learn the ugly syntax of c++ and anything that involves an asterisk I just dont have the time or will to do that. At least i admit it eh?

[pix0l]

Did you try downloading the precompiled binaries of Ogre and STL port? That's what I did. I did have a few issues still compiling, but it wasn't hard at all. Some of the more common errors are covered in the FAQ on the Ogre website. I recently got my animated model exported from 3DS Max using the Ogre Max exporter tool and it was super easy. I had much more trouble trying to get the same model imported into Irrlicht because it doesn't have a native 3DS Max exporter so I had to guess which settings to use for hours and hours. Little things like that can make a big difference in what engine you choose.

I also looked at Nebula, but I didn't even bother trying to do anything with it. It looked too complicated to me. Same with Crystal Space. The only other engine that really had me thinking hard about was TV3D it's really well put together and has really impressive looking screen shots and seems like it's pretty much state of the art. Too bad it's not free and there's a watermark though. Actually since I mentioned TV3D which is not open source or free I could also mention Power Render. It's about the same price as TV3D and equally impressive and state of the art. Tons of cool demos. Irrlicht is a nice place to get started, but I think in a few months when you're past that point you can go further in one of the other engines, but it all depends what your goals are.

Just to show I'm not totally biased though today I was trying to do something that should have been relatively simple, in Ogre and it took me hours. All I was trying to do was setup some text overtop of the rendered scene for debugging but due to the sheer size of Ogre and the complicated relationships of all the classes this took me several hours hunting through the api docs and wikis and forums and demos. Reminded me of Irrlicht actually! Then again I have no clue how to do that in Irrlicht, but I'd imagine it couldn't be any more difficult than Ogre.

Oh another pain in the butt with Ogre. I'm now trying to setup some kind of gamepad functionality which is not a part of the Ogre engine (keyboard and mouse is though) and I have to rely on separate libraries for this. I think Irrlicht has this integrated. It's just another layer of sh#t between me and making the game I want to make.

Once I've got that sorted out I get to go through that all over again when I try to decide which physics library I want to use for collisions. I'm expectin to have all kinds of fun with that.

I will follow Irrlichts progress though. It got me started afterall.

I'm not familiar with .NET at all. What's the difference compared to C++? I started programming in QBasic a few years ago and managed to do some really neat stuff that got me hooked on programming. I was only messing around with it though. I really chose C++ as my first serious language and pointers really threw me off for a while. There is some ugly syntax involved specially with the standard template library but it's been the standard for so long I'm glad I learned it instead of Basic or vanilla C. There's also Java and Delphi but those don't seem to be used as much for games to my knowledge.

[Guest]

i hate .net. isn't .net a microsoft/windows only thing? i hate things which are microsoft only, it makes me mad c++ is the best and will be the next years, thats my point!

[AssiDragon]

'pends. I always thought .NET was a big pack of things, and supports several langauges, C++ just as well (along C, C#, VJ#, whatever). I actually found the C++ side of NET to be very very polished - in fact, it's so good, I wouldn't use VC6 again even if I was paid just for doing so.

[cassini]

It's true it can be a little more difficult to get started in Ogre with setting up the directory structure and dependencies for your projects, specially if you choose to compile the engine rather than download a binary. Also Ogre's modular design makes things a little more complicated compared with Irrlicht but you can ignore alot of it or minimize it to such an extent that it becomes nearly as compact and simple as Irrlicht with a little effort and experimentation. You definitely don't have to be an expert in object oriented C++ to use Ogre, just the basics will get your through for the most part.

..........
bas,

That's another thing. The Ogre demos and the user projects featured on the homepage are really impressive. I think that's a pretty good indication of the quality of an engine.

Demos are an indication of nothing, if anything only and indication of the talent of the person making the demo.
You are acting like the dump blond that get impressed by shiny objects.

This is exactly what I was saying before must of you that are switching to ogre had already paid you due in training on a well thought and layout engine like Irrlight. The only reason you can understand Ogree is that you already learned the basic configuration of and engine.
I come from Ogree and my life is a lot easier here, I can say Ogree is not better at all, just trying to compiles it you nee to spend days configuring it.

[Robomaniac]

I don't see how everyone has trouble compiling ogre. on both windows and linux (and mac soon, when i get back sunday), i just downloaded the source, downloaded the dependancies (installed them on linux), batch built all, and it ran perfectly out've the box. linux was the same, ./configure, make, make install all worked, 1sst try

[AssiDragon]

Cassini, it's Ogre (Object oriented Graphics Rendering Engine) not Ogree. And sorry to say this, but if you have problems compiling Ogre then you are probably not on the level to explore the full features of the engine. I have actually set up Ogre under VC6 with STLPort, and while it was a huge pain in the butt, it was manageable. With NET2003 it's compiling nicely out-of-the-box; and I think there is wiki/forum help for any issues you might run into under more exotic compilers or environments.

Also, claiming that "Ogre is not better at all" is a bit blown over. Come back to the ground; give talent where it is due. Irrlicht is a lot simplier to use in almost every aspect, that's undeniable; however, Ogre has a more complete set of features.

[cassini]

Cassini, it's Ogre (Object oriented Graphics Rendering Engine) not Ogree. And sorry to say this, but if you have problems compiling Ogre then you are probably not on the level to explore the full features of the engine

That is what I say this is a typical reaction from the Ogre community, if something is not clear you are accused immediately of newbie and incompetent.

I have actually set up Ogre under VC6 with STLPort, and while it was a huge pain in the butt, it was manageable

Um it seems you had the same problems you accused Me., however for some reason you decided I was the stupid one because I was not willing to cope with the non-sense. I rest my case.
The different between you and I is that I want a tool to serve my need, not a me becaming a servant of the tool.

Also, claiming that "Ogre is not better at all" is a bit blown over. Come back to the ground; give talent where it is due. Irrlicht is a lot simplier to use in almost every aspect, that's undeniable; however, Ogre has a more complete set of features.

I had worked with OGL, DX separately without any problems.
The reason I look for an engine is that it allows me to use the functionality of both APIs from a common code base.
There is not a single feature in ogre that is unique; everything had been imported from some other open source project. All those things can be done easily with any other engine in an easy way without having to navigate your way into several thousands of types and classes.
So maybe this larger feature list is only as good as the person using it is? It may be more a liability than it is an asset.

[r2d2]

Well btw .Net is not windows only... read through the MS docs... Somewhere they said that .Net(or was it just C# the language... but it's .Net based... i don't remember it exactly) is or will be cross platform compatible some time... depending on the developers of the other OSs.

I also tried several Engines already... the three ones which impressed me most were Irrlicht, Ogre and TV3D. The problem i got with TV3D is that the C++ wrapper is not really good documented... i tried it with VB but i don't like VB let's see what the next version will bring us.
The thing i don't like about Ogre is that OOP is overused, at least in my opinion. But someome just posted here two Ogre trutorials which don't use OOP so much (sorry i'm just too lazy to look it up, but great work dude!).
Irrlicht is very simple and easy to handle but it's still lacking some cool features. I used Irrlicht for a longer time now... but when i saw the non OOP Ogre tuts my interest in Ogre began to raise again. I will try Ogre again and i will give it another chance... and hopefully without much OOP
Irrlicht and Ogre are both very great engines both with its pros and cons. I dont thing there is a really better one. Everyone should choose the one he feels more comfortable with.

[AssiDragon]

That is what I say this is a typical reaction from the Ogre community, if something is not clear you are accused immediately of newbie and incompetent.

Yeah, like setting up OGRE for usage was really a hard task. I mean c'me on, the instructions are clearly posted for most major compilers (see http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Th ... de_to_OGRE ). If you get stuck somewhere, there's an IRC channel and a forum where people will help you out. (Yes, they do.) For the first time it did took me a while to manage, but I have to agree that it was my messup, and now I could do point a finger at my older self and laugh at it. (Well, I not only could but do when I read my year old codes sometimes.)

Um it seems you had the same problems you accused Me., however for some reason you decided I was the stupid one because I was not willing to cope with the non-sense. I rest my case.

If you managed to set it up in the end, what was all the fuss about? You need to set it up once you know - if you manage once, you don't need to do it twice. Or even if you have to do (say, a reinstall), it takes seconds only for second time.
And why I said what I said, from two of us not I complain about using MSVC6 with STLPort; I managed to realize my errors I did in the past, learnt from them and now can say "it's damn easy"... while you complain and moan about this apparently overvhelming task. That's already a certain difference between us.

The different between you and I is that I want a tool to serve my need, not a me becaming a servant of the tool.

So as I take STLPort and MSVC6 means I became the servant of STLPort? Whoa. That's something new. Just of curiousity, you never really used STLPort did you?

I had worked with OGL, DX separately without any problems.
The reason I look for an engine is that it allows me to use the functionality of both APIs from a common code base.
There is not a single feature in ogre that is unique; everything had been imported from some other open source project.

I could really say the same about Irrlicht either, or almost any of the renderer engines. Unless you found and use an engine that is completely revolutionary and totally unlike all the others, you will be looking at an engine that uses well-known optimalizations and algorythms/approaches.

All those things can be done easily with any other engine in an easy way without having to navigate your way into several thousands of types and classes.

LOL. Thousands of types and classes. Loading a mesh is like what, two lines of code? Creating a particle system is like two lines too? If you just need the functionality already supported by Ogre, you don't have to navigate your way through the source. You only have to if you are changing something.

(Besides, it's not like Ogre was any hard to understand. Even I, working with C++ for slightly more than um 15 months can easily understand almost every bit I had to take a look at so far.)

So maybe this larger feature list is only as good as the person using it is? It may be more a liability than it is an asset.

Hah... So more features supported by the engine is a possible liability? Quickly tell Niko to stop adding more features into Irrlicht, it's a possible liability afterall!

r2d2 - I believe you mean something like this: http://centaurforce.sourceforge.net/Ogr ... rial_2.htm Non-OOP use of Ogre.