Modelling For .X Format

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independentCreations
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Modelling For .X Format

Post by independentCreations »

Ok, i have tried modelling/animating for the .X foramt. Modelling 3ds Max and exporting with the panda exporter. I would like to know the constraints of .X in general and when appplied to Irrlicht. Can it support:
*Bones - I assume so
*Rigging
*Animation Effects, such as cloth effects
And a run down on how to model/bone/skin/rig/animate correctly for the format and specifically .X. Right know when i export the model it comes out unskinned and they characters eyes and head, which are seperate to the main body are floating.

Any ideas on how to export correctly. Help much appreciated, if all goes to plan I am hoping to make my debut with this project :P

Thanx Brendan
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

much of the stuff is earnt from a thread I made some eons ago, do a search it may pop up with some luck...and most of settings trick I explained still valid.

also, x format is only one mesh, at least seems is what works with this engine, and I think one texture (one material, standard one, with a uvw mapping done)

Don't do eyes as separate meshes, all one single melted mesh. No attach stuff either. Welded . Single piece.

bones, weights, spline interpolation (smooth inbewteens and curves done in graph editor for the timing. Animation stuff.) are supported.

Clothes nope if u use some rendering plugin or strange thing. Clothes done with bones and weights, yep. If u applied some controller, some helper, some dynamics to the bones chains, and you keyframe those bones at frames where are some keys of the controllers, it must work. Even may work without specifically keying each bone. Try.

usually safest way with x format is : one mesh, one texture, one uv mapping channel (can do two, but..) standard material in max, bitmap in difusse channel, and I even advice to convert to edit mesh and don't have the stack with a lot of modifers, specially weird once.

Smoothing groups I think are well exported in the shape of vertex normals, which x supports.

Look for that loooong thread os sveral pages of mine were I speak the settings of Panda Exporter.
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independentCreations
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:05 am
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia

Post by independentCreations »

Ok I downloaded a mesh from the pandora web site, loads corrrectly in the dx mesh viewer, but putting it into irrlicht and it doesnt work. Some of the virtices are pulled out of proportion in irrlicht when they are not in the viewer. A question has anyone had proper full success with the integration of .x and irrlicht?
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dhenton9000
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Post by dhenton9000 »

I hate to say it, but I work with blender , I've got samples at http://www.s-fonline.com/webhosting/dhenton9000 , so its possible.
Did you have any luck finding vermeers panda exporter post?
independentCreations
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Post by independentCreations »

nah, vermeer has posted tons upon tons of posts dedicated directly towards .x and lightmapping. so i didnt find a specific post, but a couple were helpful.
Anyone had any success in max? Cause my animator knows max and is having good progress with it, and would rather not switch. Dhenton is there any prerequisits the .x format requires other than, dont name bones starting with numbers and such?
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

I hate to say it
Why? hehe lol


@indep..

Pandora?? You meant Panda x exporter?
[lol, I remember writting that question a year ago to someone.Good memory do I have.]

Look, seems it could be the usual prob of just opening in the Microsoft mesh viewer, and resaving as x with it. Then loading that x in irrlicht.

hey, some vertices...

well, if where some full meshes acting like that I'd say "make it single piece"

But if is vertices...sounds as the typical wights different interpretation between different programs. It does not only happen with x. Sometimes, close to zero values are put as zero in certain plugins or packages, or engines. Is more usual than desirable.

This can be cured by changing setting in the lorry load of settings most x exproters have.

or weighting differently the mesh.


Indeed. If I remember well, it was a setting of Panda that allowed to overcome that. Anyways, if all fails, try to see if there are vertices just having 0,001 weight or so...anyway allways this kind of stuff, you'd get a a quick solution i fu posted an screenshot of the thing in irrlicht (u can use fraps fraps.com or taksi sourceforge.net/projects/taksi ) as...well, many of us have come over zillions of problems in 3d, (I have been several times one of the main testers of several x plugins, for different packages, among other things ) and...usually one screen is of more value than thousands of descriptions from you. If is something I have seen before, I'll inmediately can tell u the solution.

Also would help *a lot* if u could definitely say if the max mesh is made of attached objects, or made all from a single object, or attached AND welded the objects. Other wise, x exporters can give problems.

Ok, I found the thread. As I knew more or less how really old it was, I found it in seconds, and also knew that was posted by that freakin parrot that is vermeer, so was easy to do the search ;)
Is an step by step done with a max 30 days trial I had for the purpose from a 3d mag. Some few days were way more than enough.

I link here the EXACT page, as is when I start the "experiment" and while I don't just put everything i do, I think can be of great help. But this attack it with patience, as all require patience. I mean, the Panda exporter exports a huge load of 3d things, so is a bit mor ecomplex than anothers, but like with jox exporter, once all works as charm is really rewarding.

both Max and Blender with their x exporter work great with Irrlicht. With th elimits, of course, of x format. Md5 is better, but is way less implanted than x in 3d packages.

Thread page where is explained :

HERE

Post an screenie, of the irrlicht thing, and if u can also the model in the Ms mview. And my help could be much better :) In case I can be of help.

My problem, my big problem to get say you a solution is I don't know:

-how you did build the mesh
-how you applied uv mapping and materials, textures
-which setting did you use in Panda.

As I can export perfectly my x files for any engine with :

Max, Ultimate Unwrap, Character Fx, XSI Foundation, Blender and Jox(based on Ben's) and Ben's exporters(was beta tester), and some more. Fully and succesfully used all.
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independentCreations
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Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia

Post by independentCreations »

K Images At

http://spaces.msn.com/members/independentCreations

The Mesh Works In the mesh viewer now, but not in irrlicht. Obviously He Has A Head, but it was seperate so id dint export it

I Get This In Console:
Unknown Joint Referenced In x file: BONE_L_thigh
CXAnimationPlayer: Animation track without corresponding joint found: BONE_L_thigh

It was modelled form cube upwards, extrude etc.

Textures seem to work perfect

Settings in panda:
Mesh Def : Tick
Materials : Tick
Include Anim : Tick
Bones : Tick
Optimzed Mesh : Optimized
Geometric : Tick
Dummy : Tick
Mesh Normals : Tick
Map Cords : Tick
Vertex Colors : Tick
Key Options : Matrix
Timeline : 3DS Max Ticks
Texture : Copy Texture
White Diffuse
Jpg
Overwrite
DX File Type : Text
DX Frame: Sub Frame Hierachy
Cord System : Left Hand Axis

Im doubly confused why the mesh works in the viewer and not in irrlicht, I also got the dragon working this moring. Not sure how. Thanx for your help so far
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

Hi, Ind.

I'll have a deeper look at all this some hours later after work.
Sure can be solved. :)
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

hi


in case you didn't read from me above...please try to open the x file in Ms mview and SAVE there as x. that x could be a lot more compliant with Irrlicht.
The Mesh Works In the mesh viewer now, but not in irrlicht. Obviously He Has A Head, but it was seperate so id dint export it
only one mesh as whole...well, a problem less, then.
I Get This In Console:
Unknown Joint Referenced In x file: BONE_L_thigh
CXAnimationPlayer: Animation track without corresponding joint found: BONE_L_thigh
is not liking the upper left leg bone for some reason....

I guess is something in the original max file. Double check that bone, if has some problem, or just something different.
It was modelled form cube upwards, extrude etc.

Sounds as if is all single piece. Good. You could make single piece also from attached parts if you attach all, but also weld part with part at vertex level.
Textures seem to work perfect
Yup, at this point I doubt there's any prob with that
Optimzed Mesh : Optimized
can't rememeber...BUT...try un-optimized...
Geometric : Tick
Dummy : Tick
No. Don't expot dummies. Shouldn't be a prob, but u don't need it, and one never knows what can mess an exporter.

Vertex Colors : Tick
I doubt u need this one..un-tick...
Key Options : Matrix
Try the other. But allways try one change at a time, to spot what causes the problem.
Timeline : 3DS Max Ticks
idem. try the other, but one by one..etc

DX File Type : Text
I think I remember from old times that niko's x supports only text, so , yep...
DX Frame: Sub Frame Hierachy
Can't remember the good setting, but I remember this was very important in the matter of possible errors. Try several.
Cord System : Left Hand Axis

neither I remember if was this or other engine..but in some it asks right handed.Try it, as if is the opposite thing, it ends up looking really weird.
Im doubly confused why the mesh works in the viewer and not in irrlicht,
is not that rare...some loader are more picky than others...A way to make it more irrlicht friendly is save in mview, free x tool from microsoft of DX sdk dx8+

I also got the dragon working this moring. Not sure how. Thanx for your help so far
I fu don't mind, hang the mesh that's giving problems, if u can i x format and max format...I can look it at my job if is Max format.

If is x, I can look with many tools, same is u use OBJ.

Why I ask you? Cause once I see actually the mesh in one of my tools I can tell so much more...And know what's happening, surely.

the screens in that tiny size did not told me much, so , i advice you upload for me the mesh for me to help you.
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independentCreations
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Post by independentCreations »

i have gotten the old model working in irrlicht now by loading it in the mesh viewer and resaving it, but the new one wont even open in the mesh viewer. and it doesnt seem to be different apart from the flex modifier and mesh select modifier, which i have removed when exporting anyway.

So Why? I have pmed you with a link of the new model where you can download it. Thanks again for your help
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

don't know if i have the time right now...

but will try right now.


Have seen what u sent me, and man, is somwhat pleasant to find from time to time someone with good knowledge on how to make a good rigging...

If you made it, I can tell you you know your stuff. (well, a rig is very personal, I do rig in a different way, but what I recognize is the expertise just at the first look is noticed with this one)

yet though I did never liked to much anime or manga, but the technical skills are technical skills ;) .Even if u use em for that ;)


If some other artist made it, say congrats to him.

Now to see the probs...

EDIT : oh, hadn't noticed u replied me here too..let's see ...hey, flex modifer may you have disabled in export, but may be messing panda exporter anyway.try deleting from the scene previously.Try to keep stuff just with edit mesh modifier and skin modifier over it only, those are safer allways for engines/formats exports.

I insist, this guy know his stuff in rigging :)
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

my boss gonna kill me, looking with no good eyes now...


hey, REMEMBER you need bones keyframed, at least do add two keyframes in to frames different...Indeed I tend to keyframe all in first and last frame..., and the vertex animation is NOT ported in x files. It only understand bones changes in rotation traslation. Bones influece vertices with skin weights, but that's all! :)

That game of you is ambitious but seems you have solid possibilities, at least in what is the art -dunno the other sides- I don't like the graphic genre, but that's too personal.

The fact is, if ur the artists, seems u come from hi res field, or at least have good knowledge of that. But in bones and weights ganme formats some stuff is in many formats not supported.

i can and will tell u more once am free again, today. :)

I think is after all the typical x problems, don't worry, can be quite solved.
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independentCreations
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Post by independentCreations »

Yeah thanks for the encouragment :P My partner made the model, and he is the artist for thr game while i am handling all things code.
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

looks like that thing is for an intro like scene...


look, wind and stuff is cool, but forget bout flex, it's x files.


u need to use bones and weights.

ive done often that, with bones and weights for cloth movement, yup, doing so the effect manually to my best effort...

I guess u could apply some physic modifiers or reactor to dummies or objects that controls thoe bones and maybe cut some hours, but...


so, forget bout vertex level animation.

also, if no bones animation keyframes there, the panda does not export a thing...!
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

ehm...sorry...not so good rig..at least for games...very advanced things, though.


Something wrong with how is built the skeleton...the hierarchy better be a continuous one,all children of a root (ie, pelvis)

also unsure if also there's some error with weights...did you applied it with weight painting...That could be ....

it wont export with any setting, though, and you need to tick bones in export...or wont export any anim...

dunno.Unsure how the thing was built...


For x files, is usually better to stay basic: just some hi solvers for feet, standard weights applied preferrably with applying a weights absolute number in the modifier.Yup,it's tedious. But is done once, after all, and u can mirror weights since 6.0...

With panda use only bones like u did, but also...try to forget so much controllers and use simple bones...In theory wouldn't give problems...there's something weird in ur mesh internals which I didn't detect...That'd be the key...

Also, edit poly is cool for modeling, but most game export formats do prefer a lot the good old edit mesh...So, weight it as edit mesh thing.


don't use flex modifier, and other stuff of max other than skin and bones...and so u'll stay away of problems..


yet though, finding the offending matter in the mesh, is all solved and surely can be used advanced stuff...

But I needda do other things now...
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