See ya...

[Guest]

<RANT MODE ON>
I can't stand it anymore. The noobs that post to this forum are starting to drive me crazy. I can't read through the posts without wanting to just blast 'em and it's getting harder and harder to filter useful information from the forum through all the "noob noise".

I guess it's because I'm "old school" and learned my programming arts the hard way, by reading, experimenting and failing. Repeat as necessary. Seems like most of the noobs who post here want code handed to them, or step by step instructions without putting much, if any effort into it. They want to be game programmers and most of them can't even use their compilers. It's sad.

Here's an example from a recent noob posting. He wants examples:

Like:
Seamless World
Gui (showing all elements)
Lighting in a Quake 3 map (bps)
How to do AI
3rd Person Camera
Maybe even a small RPG example

And any other examples you can give me.

I know people have to start somewhere and I'm not condeming all noobs but geez, where's this guy's effort? He wants it all done for him and it just drives me nuts... The other sad thing is that I'm seeing more and more of these kinds of posts in other game oriented forums too.

So, I'm movin' on. Irrlicht is great engine and it's got plenty of potential but I can't handle the newbie "babysitting service" aspect any more.

I wish the best of luck to those who expend the effort and pay their dues.
<RANT MODE OFF>

[Anteater]

Who's the more noobish? The noob or the guy that's ticked off with him? Really, it isn't like your required to answer NooB questions, anyway. Heck, I'm a NooB myself (Only been using C++ for a year), and I'm not ticked off with questions of that sort. Besides, a newbie should aim high. Why? Because his first attempt at coding (like mine, Eric the Anteater and the Elixir of Life) Isn't going to be as half as good as he planned it, so if he aims high, his game won't be as bad. Also, instead of just telling him to RTFM or something, or just give him an example, people should point to tutorials that show how to do what the noob wants to. This will teach him the idea of putting effort into something, because he'll be doing some of the stuff himself.

[Heizi]

Thats why there is a noob and pro section

[Guest]

<RANT MODE ON>
I can't stand it anymore. The noobs that post to this forum are starting to drive me crazy. I can't read through the posts without wanting to just blast 'em and it's getting harder and harder to filter useful information from the forum through all the "noob noise".

I guess it's because I'm "old school" and learned my programming arts the hard way, by reading, experimenting and failing. Repeat as necessary. Seems like most of the noobs who post here want code handed to them, or step by step instructions without putting much, if any effort into it. They want to be game programmers and most of them can't even use their compilers. It's sad.

Here's an example from a recent noob posting. He wants examples:

Like:
Seamless World
Gui (showing all elements)
Lighting in a Quake 3 map (bps)
How to do AI
3rd Person Camera
Maybe even a small RPG example

And any other examples you can give me.

I know people have to start somewhere and I'm not condeming all noobs but geez, where's this guy's effort? He wants it all done for him and it just drives me nuts... The other sad thing is that I'm seeing more and more of these kinds of posts in other game oriented forums too.

So, I'm movin' on. Irrlicht is great engine and it's got plenty of potential but I can't handle the newbie "babysitting service" aspect any more.

I wish the best of luck to those who expend the effort and pay their dues.

<RANT MODE OFF>

full 10000% ack!

im really with you and i think the same way, except that i wont leave irrlicht because of the n00bs - just ignore the f*ckers!!

ps: you are the man!!! this thread was really needed for a long time already!!

[Conquistador]

I say if we're ticked off, lets do something about it.

Maybe making a "Friendly advice to new users" thread, saying basically that people aren't going to hand stuff out to you, you have to take initiative and find out yourself if the problem has already been answered, and basically how to limit the noob noise.

I'm starting to realize that most of these people coming in here with the exreme newbish attitudes just don't know, and we're scaring them away from the project by lashing out at them for doing something they didn't know was wrong.

[omaremad]

Or redirect all noob questions to the irc channel for quick answers

NOObs get answers quickly and th forums stays clean

[pfo]

I'm with IntMain and GFXStyler, the kinds and quantities of noob questions asked here are outrageous.

Thats why there is a noob and pro section

The only thing having both of these sections does is encourage the really obnoxious noobs to double post.

I say if we're ticked off, lets do something about it .

Maybe making a "Friendly advice to new users" thread

Heh, I thought that's what those stickies were for...

I'm starting to realize that most of these people coming in here with the exreme newbish attitudes just don't know, and we're scaring them away from the project by lashing out at them for doing something they didn't know was wrong.

I agree with that, they shouldn't be driven away. Many of them just want to make a game, find Irrlicht and find themselves in deep water, and come running here before they drown. When you're drowning there is no time for thinking or reading.

The Ogre forums don't have this problem near as bad, nor Newton or many other game SDKs. It seems odd to me that Irrlicht attracts all these people.

When I was 15, I started programming using the Genesis 3D engine (the first open source 3d engine), and I was the noob, bad. I asked the same obnoxious questions they do now and bothered people to no end.... for a month. After a while I learned that helping myself was faster and more productive. Back in those days, finding answers to questions on the net about simple topics was a lot harder. You couldn't just google it and find a good answer. This forum is a treasure trove of noob advice, when I started using Irrlicht every basic question I could have asked was already answered here somewhere.

[Spintz]

there's a difference between someon who is new and someone who is lazy, try not to confuse it, avoid the beginners help forum and move on to the advanced help, maybe have a new forum for the level between advanced and beginner

its so easy to ignore posts, it shouldn't bother you so much.

[Maize]

I agree. If they just want to copy and paste stuff, how is that different from using game creating programs? Thats right, it really isn't. The best way to learn to program (like someone else said) is practice a ton. And if you can't do that, buy game maker. Now there are some problems. Some n00bs are honest n00bs that want to try to learn. Most people on these forums are nice but a lot of people take advantage of them.

[dawasw]

Yes I agree with IntMain that n00bs are annoying and we have to PWN them.

But remember of course that there are still newbies also

Personally, I've started as a newbie and also asked many stupid questions, but after some time I've noticed that it is better to 'mess up' with examples alone and ask for help only when problem occurs or something doesn't work.

Today, about a year playing with Irrlicht I have learned a lot, so I think: "Change something and see what happens" is a good advice.

On the other hand I find examples useful. Especially at the beginning - I remember when Omaremad has released his sources - that was a great start for me - a simple framework I could extend , extend. That is how I grew up to point I'm at today.

In conclusion, the best way to challenge a n00b is to make an example section for him. That would solve all problems.

A big title of section: EXAMPLES FOR NEWBIES and put there all free, released by other code samples.

Maybe crazy, but even when n00b will meet someone's code he will have to learn something to implement it.

[omaremad]

I agree with dawsaw.

At the start i wanted ready made ai, i looked on the net and found nothing but usless theory and most people on this forums just say this phrase

"learn nueral net or some kind of genetic AI"

they dont know what the are talking about why would i want my enemy to walk into a wall 50 times then it learns to follow me

no ONE provided an example of pusedo code so i had to think of a way which was unfortunatly was not the best. If some just advised me to used ENum lists my code would have been alot cleaner. so basically most of the articles on the net are junk with no real examples on how to do things properly resulting in confused noobs.

people are not lazy they need to be enlighted

here is what i mean

SAME ALGORITHIM but diffrent style which do you think a newbie would like(or anyone)

http://www.peroxide.dk/download/tutoria ... tut10.html

or

this

http://www.flipcode.com/articles/articl ... ions.shtml

[MikeR]

A big title of section: EXAMPLES FOR NEWBIES and put there all free, released by other code samples.

I have to agree with this statement. When I started here, I hadn't even seen C++ code. I downloaded Irrlicht becouse of the pictures and the friendly forum. Seeing what I saw, prompted me to buy a book. (someone here recomended it) and have been slowly learning since. I have found that by taking code snippets and playing with them, I learned even more.
I never want complete code, becouse that would make me lazy. I mean, why should I study if people are going to just give me something I can just copy/paste?? But when I first started, that's how I learned. I did a lot of copy/paste from the tutorials.
We all started somewhere, and we all learn at different paces. (some of us work too many hours on our "day" job to actually get much study time in). If we keep it friendly, and point noobs to posts that have already been made about their particular question, this place will be better for it. No matter what we do, there will always be 10 posts in the beginners forum stating:

I have this error: cant find lib

We just have to point people to the place where to get the answers. (and pointing doesn't hurt)

[afecelis]

Ok ok, it's been heard!

But I also think it won't solve the problem. In the end, a vault to place code snippets will be full of newbie questions as well.

As a standard, most programming forums have got a "code snippets" forum so perhaps having one in Irrlicht might help us now. But the noob issue will always be there, believe me.

It's a matter of not paying attention to the posts that annoy you and also not answering the things you don't feel like; but please don't go to to the other extreme of becoming agressive and disrepfectful just because you find a post too "newbieish".

As a final thought; I also don't think one should judge Irrlicht for its forums but for its graphical capabilities; in the end remember it's a free world and freedom of speech is a right, not a privilege to be questioned.

second final thought: I'm creating the "code snippets" thread now, please suggest the sub-threads you'd like to see included in them (i.e., fps camera, 3rd person camera, AI, physics, etc etc) so that I can set up the main frame for them.

Last final thought: after finishing last year, paying some debts, and having my dad healthy again after his surgery, I finally got the chance of retaking the "challenge of the month" idea; So I'll try to get in contact with Skater and Bitplane (which volunteered to help as monitors) to try and organize it.

more news to come!

ps. Like some cartoon says: do not despair, here comes super bear!

[Fred]

"I guess it's because I'm "old school" and learned my programming arts the hard way, by reading, experimenting and failing."

That's the hard way? Sheeit, I thought taking a 4 year degree in computer science was the hard way.

*scratches head*

[Guest]

IntMain i join you, see you irrlicht community!