Questions about mapping!

[PsycoDad]

Hello everybody,
I have some questions about maps and lightmaps.
You may think they are stupid, but i don`t know it better. So it would be nice if you can give me some answers.

1.) In the forum they talk about maps, and lightmaps. Is there a difference between them, dependet by the file format?

2.)I want to make a map of a city (with lights and shads), and i don`t know how to do it. I have no problems to build my objekts in milkshape or draw and export them from autocad in a 3ds files. But is it sensibly to have different file formats and put them together to one map?

3.) Whit witch program should i put my objekts together to one map,
or should i load them successively. Do you cracks do this with Milkshape?

4.)Are there some tricks to reduce the loading time by great maps? Maybe also dependet by the file formats?

[AndyCR]

1. The term "Maps" can be used for many things; levels, "bit"maps, overhead maps, the aforementioned lightmaps. It really depends.

2. I would simply create a file that is a list of models and their positions, maybe write a little exporter or small irrlicht program to place them. The format cold be VERY simple, ie:

Code: Select all

tree.x 3 4 100
frog.obj 1 20 100

then youd have simple code which parsed it and loaded the specified models and placed them at the specified positions.

3. Pretty much answered above.

4. Yes its -slightly- dependant on the file formats, but I havent had much trouble, though i havent loaded any insanely huge maps. The only trick i can think of is to split it into multiple maps(maps hgere referring to levels) or make what you have lower-detail.

[PsycoDad]

For your help AndyCR!
Are there anybody with other opinions?

[vermeer]

You can model in milkshape, so I guess you can also texture.

Your main issue now is:

* get the model and textures into a package that will generate a second channel of UV mapping, and also generates the lightmaps. (that can be a bmp, tga, or whatever. Is just the lighting baked into an uv template)

* Dig for the way and format to get the final output into Irrlicht.

Possibilities that i can remember now easily...(many left out)

-Slimshady. Surely you'd have some problems getting it into irrlicht.No curved smooth normals surfaces supported.

-Trancos initial tool. Same problem with normals. But he made a loader fo rirrlicht.

-Deled lite. There's a loader, just it only works with 16x16 bitmap in lightmaps. You can do with a lot of blurring, but...

-Trancos FSRAD(no smoothing normals supported) and his OBJ2ent tool. Usable, I did use it, but complex for newbies.

-my3d, probaly the easier if you had Max.

-Murphy's OCT format. No smoothing normals either, but there's a loader for it, and a veiwer, and works well.

-Murphy's mim tools and loader. Is a loader for the mim format, but you yet would need some tool to generate the lightmap object as OBJ. You could use Lightmap maker , which is free for that generation. (if it exports as 3ds or x, or that, you can convert to obj later. Mim tools require one OBJ with the lightmap, one with the texture) here I uploaded lightmapmaker.
I need to contact Bal for if I can upload some extra way demanded tools or not(see my signature).
the fact is this lightmaper was given freeware, and as it looked me suspicious (of an incoming shutdown or something, happened to others) grabbed it inmediately. These days I don't see it anymore in google, and the site does not exist anymore. So I have only in backup DVDs of mine. I uploaded:

ehm

I know. Is not enough.But a book could be written...there are many more ways. The question is to vague...

Just you need to do your own research. I point you some main possible lines.

Lightmap maker
http://www.savefile.com/files/8605999

[PsycoDad]

THX Vermeer!

I know. Is not enough.But a book could be written...

I think for me this is enough for the first. I would spend some time to check out what you and AndyCR told me.
Thanks.

[MiNalien]

For mapping, a friend of mine once did just 2D image controls with Visual Basic, having 2D overhead tiles representing 3D tiles for his maps, and placing NPCs & such in a similar way. Another way to do mapping would be to do something similar to what I found in a Dark Basic Pro tutorial; map out 1 character at a time, having different characters represent different things on the map (possibly even having multiple files for one map, for different layers or different features (ie; in a 2D game, one for ground tiles, one for transparency-enabled tiles, one for above-character tiles, one for NPCs, one for items, etc), like this:

Size: 16x16 tiles
Tiles Key:

Code: Select all

W - Wall
D - Door
F - Floor

Tiles Map:

Code: Select all

WWWWWWWWWDWWWWWW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Monsters Key:

Code: Select all

. (period) - Empty
O - Orc

Monsters Map:

Code: Select all

................
.O..............
................
................
......O.........
................
................
.........OOO....
................
..O............O
..............O.
............O...
..........O.....
........O.......
......O.........
................

Then, when parsing your map, do something like (note: code is not of an actual programming language, just an example type)

Code: Select all

if character is W then tile is Wall
if character is D then tile is Door
if character is F then tile is Floor

Something similar to that

[PsycoDad]

I think this is a real good way to build 2D maps with simple structures.
In my case i want to build a minimap of a modern city in 3D that looks like a FPS map. This should only be the background, so it don`t have to be very detaild. My Projekt is a study work over building process management which is needed to simulaiting every building phase of a house, from the basement to the walls to the roof.....
And the planner could walk through the building site at every building phase.
I have finished to do the simulaition for this, and now i work on the background map.
By the way (i think this is not the right place for something like this),
but if somebody has some files for me(allready textured), like modern houses, cars, trees, a skybox of a city, or even a hole map. I would be a great help for me.

[hybrid]

The university of Osnabrück presented a project on this year's CeBIT where they modelled some parts of the Osnabrück city. You can access the models and textures via the web.
For the file format: You'll probably want some XML based file format. MIM shall do that, but I never found a working version somewhere. Our P-UMLaut project has a rather complete XML file format which will be extended to full Irrlicht features. The MyWorld project by Lofing is also plannign for an XML format. Just check it out.

[vermeer]

I have allways had mim, and uploaded several times, but to temporary file vaults.

I am not the author, though.

[hybrid]

Using a project which is not maintained and even not distributed by the author anymore could be a little strange, if not dangerous.

[PsycoDad]

I googled for the homepage from the uni of Osnabrück and their projekt. But I didn`t found something!
And so it makes no scence to talk over a xml problem until there is a problem!
Hybrid, do you have the link?

Thx to all for much replys!

[hybrid]

Sure. It's http://www.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de/vrml_o ... /index.htm
This is only for building textures, though, not for XML file formats (as they use VRML).

[sdi2000]

hmm* vrml... i hate this language =) anyway... our company has a 3dstereoscopic viewer for vrml files. multiwall edgeblending and more features like a sgi cave...
check the website if u interested
http://www.x-rooms.de/

[PsycoDad]

That looks great!
Both sites are hard to watch with the eyes of a newbie.

I search for something that is much more easier detailed.
And also I think, there is no chance to get those models from them.

Give me more of this stuff!
I am interessted in textured 3DS files! VRML is a closed book for me!

[hybrid]

You can easily reuse their textures. Just look into the vrml files and you'll find the urls for all textures they use. Except for some extraordinary buildings all of their houses are just simple boxes which are colored with four textures, one on each side, plus a simple roof. So I don't think that you'll get it any simpler. I was thinking of providing a house scene node for Irrlicht which acts just like this. Maybe plus some bump mapping to make the windows look a little more interesting.