What should go in Irrlicht 2.0?

[jam]

well, hell, it seems all the formats are a huge pain in the *****.

so, how bout this?

we use a simple but complete XML format tailored to Irrlicht, that way, you can easily build exporters/importers for modeling apps. Then, before use with irrlicht, that xml format is converted to a binary version that will be faster for the engine to use.

This way, importers/exporters will be easy to make, but the files will still be faster in irrlicht...

maybe im missing something.

This would probably be a better way to go.

[vermeer]

good

only bad thing is...maybe theloader should be maintained through irrlicht versions, while if you add a solid md5 format loader, md5 is allways the same, and already many exporters are actually done...This for the animation format...Though I personally allways dealed well with x, seems most newcomers dont...anyway unsure if newcomers are just new to bones and weights formats in general...which would be unrelated with x....

As I said, md5 is one freaking good support of it for Blender. It's really seamless what u export as md5 from der ton's plugin to what u see in engines. Really a piece of gold.

For scenery, I see it(own irrlicht xml format) as better solution.
(was what murphy started to do , with even a viewer and a set of tools, with his format (I refer to MIM)) .For me it was quite practical point to be able to touch settings in the sml text file. Though yup probably a binary final output is more optimized solution. XML is very handy though for many reasons.

Good thing if comunity makes the plugins for Blender and/or Anim8or, is that canbe actually maintained by same comunity. Not wait till an overcomplex format gets updated, in case it does.
(maybe once the format is in, may come Maya and Max exporters. )


Probably adding a pair of exporters of the 2 most known free modelers : Anim8or (for its ease of use and autosmooth function) , Blender, for all what it can do being also free. Anim8or was pursuiting th eline lately to provide an easy way to do export plugins for users, that i read lately at their forums. Is such an easier tool to learn than blender, while I tend to prefer Blender for animation.

[TheRLG]

hmm I haven't checked MD5 out yet. What games use the format already besides DOOM? Also, what's the license for MD5? If I wanted to use it for my commercial or open-source project, am I free to do so? For scene, I agree, XML is probably best, and it will probably be easier to just leave that up to whatever tool the user feels like deploying, be it Visual Editor, or whatever.

[vermeer]

hmm I haven't checked MD5 out yet. What games use the format already besides DOOM?

Surely many. I have been adviced this format by several pros I know from the profession. I'm told is way more simple than x (but at the time x was added to Irrlicht, there was no md5, and x was dominant in compatibility with packages, exporters. these days, main tools have md5 export, and works really well. What is more, is way lighter than x., yet more advanced (but you can support only weights bones and anim, as allways(to me that the 4th essenctial feature is port spline interpolation between bones keyframes, instead of just linear.)) )

I'm also told md5 is way easier to deal with for coders. I was told that a bit too late.... I like the matter that you have loads of viewers for x, though.Indeed, I like both formats. But well, is true that seems md5 is better, and newer.

Also, what's the license for MD5? If I wanted to use it for my commercial or open-source project, am I free to do so? For scene, I

From what i know, zero problems for that.Just like with md3 and md2, usually what is not free for that, are the tools, no the formats! In 3d, not many formats have license issues.

I read is fully free, but I don't have the link easily available here; sure is easy to check with a bit of google.

agree, XML is probably best, and it will probably be easier to just

I tell you, for the artist to be able to touch via notepad the whole scene there, change the strenght and type of lightmapping, etc, is sweet. I'm told though that non binary formats are slower. yet though, for when doing the game, for editing and stuff, is way more functional. Even for error check help done by the artist, just reading the xml output.

leave that up to whatever tool the user feels like deploying, be it Visual Editor, or whatever.

Well, there's already a loader in progress for Anim8or. I think that's a heck of an easy and friendly scene editor to learn. And has details like autosmoothing, and a good materials editor.

Blender is more advanced, but it depends; there are basic features not in Blender that are in Anim8or. Few, but to me, important.

For animation, that I remeber, no way to glue a foot to ground in Anim8or, yet. While in Blender there's an advanced IK sytem that allows this by using constraints. No ik in Anim8or.

Reason why I keep seing (no lightmaps either in Blender, nor multi UVs) Anim8or or Wings good chances for scene building, and Blender better for character animation. x export works for me. MD5 export works simply sensational, using der_ton's exporter. It exports greately the interpolation curves, the pose mode constraints (no need to bake) , all with a single problem, direct, bang.

I have not tested md5 out from Max, but I know very well there's at least one plugin that works great for it. The maya and xsi solutions for it are worse as will require you to have the doom3 game purchased, as is imported to the game or something. A rare method. But maybe an standalone version will come for those. besides, Gmax has since a while an md5 exporter. I havent tested, but others use it and say it's good.
Lightwave, I guess it can...and so on.
It has export them for the two main better free animation tools (to me are Blender and Gmax) , besides in an standalone way, Lightwave and Max ...which is not little. (and ppl with doom3 game, also XSI, Maya)

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewto ... 9446#59446 (for lightwave)

Oh, there are nice viewers, tools and all...

[Lekane]

Mouse inversion without recompiling

[arixion]

embedded Irrlicht?

[Hirte]

Mouse inversion without recompiling

And Antialiasing;)

[evolutional]

What changes are we to expect in the way of architecture? Right now it seems as if V2.0 will be just 1.0 with extra features. I pretty much epxected a 2.0 version to be almost a whole new engine in terms of architecture...

[RustyNail]

What changes are we to expect in the way of architecture? Right now it seems as if V2.0 will be just 1.0 with extra features. I pretty much epxected a 2.0 version to be almost a whole new engine in terms of architecture...

I think that would be going a little to far...
irrlicht is already very effective, but then again overdoing the extra features would make an unstable engine, all of the features piled one unpon the other... They all have tio be interegated completely, which means the architecture changes...

OH, and I am all for a XML terrain format...

[Lekane]

yeah new formats... like .blender

[RustyNail]

.blender, I think, is an in-between format, a working format before the completed porduct...

[hybrid]

But it seems that blender export modules are quite bad so it could be a way to finally support blender created meshes. Maybe Ogre mesh support will help enough, though. Don't know about the blender-ogre exporter's quality.

[Baal Cadar]

Don't know about the blender-ogre exporter's quality.

It works really well. We use it for our project without problems so far.

[sRc]

lol check the blog niko just added ogre mesh format

[RustyNail]

Ya, i've seen that...
The model that is the 'mascot' of OGRE looks a little out-of-place in the simplicity of irrlicht....