I rember a post by gfxstyler where he removed what i calle the obesity and got like a 100% frame rate improvement.
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... =gfxstyler
IrrEdit and friends - Big Waste of Niko's and friends' time
Why not some optimistic comments?
Why not some optimistic comments? It seems that the whole point of this thread has gone somewhere else 
I agree that Irrlicht is not up to Ogre3d- yet, but then Ogre3d was once at the same stage as Irrlicht. Every 3d engine needs an active community in order to continue development, without which there is no point is adding to the engine. Irrlicht is progressivly becoming what one could expect of a commercial 3d engine. Since Niko is the only "official" programmer, the releases are fewer than in perhaps ChrystalSpace, but the svn is actively maintained and provides the newest bug-fixes. Maybe the bug-fixes are a few weeks in coming, but who really cares? The core engine works fine, and all this minor stuff about patches for the OpenGL driver seem unimportant. Considering that 95% of your users will be using windows and DirectX, I think that such problems are trivial. Yes, this raises the concern for cross-platform support, but in the future I think this will be totally fixed in the svn as well as Irrlicht releases. And if you guys really don't like Irrlicht all that much, why haven't you already switched to Ogre3d? It is because Irrlicht is a lot easier to use, has more support for the "older" formats( everyone likes 3ds ), and because everyone dislikes the idea of re-learning a 3d engine. Personally, I will develop in both Irrlicht and Ogre3d. I expect that within 3-5 years Irrlicht will be at Ogre3d's level of graphics and that in the long run it is really worth while sticking to Irrlicht. Thank you Niko for your continuing development on this project; much appreciated!!!
I agree that Irrlicht is not up to Ogre3d- yet, but then Ogre3d was once at the same stage as Irrlicht. Every 3d engine needs an active community in order to continue development, without which there is no point is adding to the engine. Irrlicht is progressivly becoming what one could expect of a commercial 3d engine. Since Niko is the only "official" programmer, the releases are fewer than in perhaps ChrystalSpace, but the svn is actively maintained and provides the newest bug-fixes. Maybe the bug-fixes are a few weeks in coming, but who really cares? The core engine works fine, and all this minor stuff about patches for the OpenGL driver seem unimportant. Considering that 95% of your users will be using windows and DirectX, I think that such problems are trivial. Yes, this raises the concern for cross-platform support, but in the future I think this will be totally fixed in the svn as well as Irrlicht releases. And if you guys really don't like Irrlicht all that much, why haven't you already switched to Ogre3d? It is because Irrlicht is a lot easier to use, has more support for the "older" formats( everyone likes 3ds ), and because everyone dislikes the idea of re-learning a 3d engine. Personally, I will develop in both Irrlicht and Ogre3d. I expect that within 3-5 years Irrlicht will be at Ogre3d's level of graphics and that in the long run it is really worth while sticking to Irrlicht. Thank you Niko for your continuing development on this project; much appreciated!!! 
To Valtras:
OpenGL is a lot easier to use. I think the ones who use DirectX are the folks at Microsoft, the windows "no matter what" guys, and the hobbyists. All the rest use OpenGL. Leastways, that is my perception.The reason is the same as reason of learning OpenGL and Direct3D, viz comparison and choice
To Valtras:
Niko uses windows. Maybe he thought it oringinally more important to have d3d for himself? Personally, just because I prefer coding programs in OpenGL doesn't mean I love the OpenGL driver. It really depends on the computer. D3d uses "bleeding edge" technology which either displays wanky graphics or pro 3d. OpenGL doesn't have access to these features and so it displays only what the average computer can. On windows xp, I usually use d3d. On older window computers OpenGL isn't always supported. Of course on Linux there is only the one! Over the years at the Irrlicht forum, there have been more patches for d3d. It is only really now that I have seen a few minor OpenGL fixes coming out...Why OpenGL driver in Irrlicht has more bugs than d3d?
Well, both DirectX and OpenGL are easy to use. It's simply not true, that OpenGL is "a lot" easier to use, it's almost the same.
And why shouldn't there any cases to use DX9? Why should we wait for DX10 and Vista?
Of course, I would prefer OpenGL if I want to develop on Linux and Windows, and yes I also don't like all the OpenGL bugs in Irrlicht - a reason for me to use DX.
Regards - Xaron
And why shouldn't there any cases to use DX9? Why should we wait for DX10 and Vista?
Of course, I would prefer OpenGL if I want to develop on Linux and Windows, and yes I also don't like all the OpenGL bugs in Irrlicht - a reason for me to use DX.
Regards - Xaron
Incompability.Why should we wait for DX10 and Vista?
Don't cheat yourself... most of game developers are making games for a potential player... a player always install the newest windows, the newest drivers, and he want to have everything the best and he just want to have fun! well... most of gamers will install Vista and Dx10 to play modern games, so we should write engine for Dx10... or write a good one for OpenGL...
Wrong Valtras, I'm guessing you're a gamer kid who wants the latest bells and whistles.
Let's be realistic here, if you are a one-man-band and want to use Irrlicht for commercial use, you're entering the $5 game market and the majority of your 'potential players' are on really old systems possibly even running Windows 98.
Omar, the only speed related thing that's missing from that list is the vertex buffers, and there's an ongoing discussion about adding these into irrlicht. I suggest you get off Irrlicht 0.14 and start using 1.1 or SVN.
"we cant even edit bones positions on the fly but look rabcat has it. why not implement it" you can in luke's latest b3d patch, and with acki's x bones patch, we just need a nice unified way of controlling the bones across the different mesh formats. we were discussing this last night.. I should probably start a thread on it.
"for example we cant add materials on a sub node basis, a whole node carries just one material..." READ THE API
Let's be realistic here, if you are a one-man-band and want to use Irrlicht for commercial use, you're entering the $5 game market and the majority of your 'potential players' are on really old systems possibly even running Windows 98.
Omar, the only speed related thing that's missing from that list is the vertex buffers, and there's an ongoing discussion about adding these into irrlicht. I suggest you get off Irrlicht 0.14 and start using 1.1 or SVN.
"we cant even edit bones positions on the fly but look rabcat has it. why not implement it" you can in luke's latest b3d patch, and with acki's x bones patch, we just need a nice unified way of controlling the bones across the different mesh formats. we were discussing this last night.. I should probably start a thread on it.
"for example we cant add materials on a sub node basis, a whole node carries just one material..." READ THE API
-
monkeycracks
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: Tennesee, USA
- Contact:
Note that my post was ranting about how patches never get included which makes irr out of the box look bad, the poor animation system i replaced with klasker`s patche etc.... The fact that niko already coded these things in another engine based on irrlicht but refuses to adress them in irrlicht is what my rant was about.
i was aware of acki's patches i was just sayiing if its in rabcat why isnt it in irrlicht (being implemented in rabcat means it was believed to be a good enough feature)
However i dont really mind since there is no gain without pain and we shouldnt enslave niko to get evry thing on a plate.
you already got me on that material thing on irc, no need to humiliate me more
i was aware of acki's patches i was just sayiing if its in rabcat why isnt it in irrlicht (being implemented in rabcat means it was believed to be a good enough feature)
However i dont really mind since there is no gain without pain and we shouldnt enslave niko to get evry thing on a plate.
you already got me on that material thing on irc, no need to humiliate me more
-
hybrid
- Admin
- Posts: 14143
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:20 pm
- Location: Oldenburg(Oldb), Germany
- Contact:
Fortunately bitplane already brought some of you back on track so I did not have to work through all of this right after my holidays 
But it's really sad to see what the community currently thinks of the development process. Some months ago when Niko made all this on his own the typical reaction on the first post in this thread would have been a perfect support for Niko doing all this on his own. Now, with only a hand full of people more everyone expects a commercial quality support with 24x7 support and development.
We are really doing our best to get all up and running, but sometimes real life comes first which makes a small slowdown. But development continues - also in the community
So keep on submitting patches, but also expect some (constructive) crticism as well, and also some changes necessary to make those submissions acceptable for the Irrlicht core.
But it's really sad to see what the community currently thinks of the development process. Some months ago when Niko made all this on his own the typical reaction on the first post in this thread would have been a perfect support for Niko doing all this on his own. Now, with only a hand full of people more everyone expects a commercial quality support with 24x7 support and development.We are really doing our best to get all up and running, but sometimes real life comes first which makes a small slowdown. But development continues - also in the community
So keep on submitting patches, but also expect some (constructive) crticism as well, and also some changes necessary to make those submissions acceptable for the Irrlicht core.Man! My last post was about gamer kids! They want only 128 bit textures, shader 9.0, etc...I'm guessing you're a gamer kid who wants the latest bells and whistles.
Sorry, my friend, but I'm not one-man-band...one-man-band
Don't talk about money. I have it enought... End of discussion...you're entering the $5 game market
I think you don't know what real game developing means.
Irrlicht doesn't suit commercial standards...
I've already made a commercial game (not on irrlicht, of course...) and I know what a gamer need, so don't instruct me, please...
-
hybrid
- Admin
- Posts: 14143
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:20 pm
- Location: Oldenburg(Oldb), Germany
- Contact:
Any proofs (e.g. links to your real name and the game)
And since you did not make a render engine please don't instruct us how to do this.
Why don't you check which engine suits your needs and use that one (since you do not want to help out on the engine). On the other hand you seem to know Irrlicht quite good, you give advice to Irrlicht users in the beginner's forum. Maybe clearly state what you want and behave like an educated person. This will make discussion much more useful
And since you did not make a render engine please don't instruct us how to do this.
Why don't you check which engine suits your needs and use that one (since you do not want to help out on the engine). On the other hand you seem to know Irrlicht quite good, you give advice to Irrlicht users in the beginner's forum. Maybe clearly state what you want and behave like an educated person. This will make discussion much more useful