New users/programmers

cobra · Post by **cobra** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:09 pm

I mostly agree with Sylence. I really haven't noticed too much hostility in replies to help topics (though I've seen some that could certainly have been omitted). They're usually pretty rare.

As for giving working code to a newbie programmer, I think it's up to the newbie programmer to try to understand the code as best he can. If he's not a person willing/able to understand it, then maybe he can use it until he can, and then go back to it and actually figure it out. Maybe through the use of it he will learn not only how to use it, but also how to do other things like it on his own.

I myself learned software development skills through reading things on the vast array of great internet resources and of course through working on my own projects. I can't recall many times when I've asked a person for help on general programming, but I also spent a lot of extra time programming.

Some people don't have that much time to dedicate to programming (or some who are too lazy to, and those types don't usually get good replies I think, which is a necessary culling perhaps), and that's why we're here to help them.

I think if a person is a genuine learner, then there's no reason to hold back any knowledge.

For those who immediately ask for a working solution to their problems without first trying to wit's end, then they need a little boost in the right direction of being a "problem solver" or to find a new career/hobby.

Radikalizm · Post by **Radikalizm** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:58 pm

@Seven

I think you are misunderstanding me, I'm not the kind of person who 'nerdrages' and posts RTFM in every thread in the beginner section, not at all

If people have genuinely searched for a solution for their problem and if they really couldn't solve it (and if they make it clear they did) I'd be more than happy to help them (maybe not in the same way you would help them, but it'd still be valuable help)
If you read the beginners forum you'll see that I've attempted to help out lots of people, no matter the cause of their problem (and this without only saying 'go read the docs')

The thing that bothers me most is the people who say 'I tried to do something, it didn't work, give me code' while they just have a simple linker error, syntax error or something that was clearly explained in the tutorials and other documentation material
Some other things I've seen on here is that people genuinely don't want to learn C++ because they don't want to 'waste time' on it, while they still want to make a game, so they just ask for dumbed down working code (which just feels wrong to me)

I have also never claimed that you should only go read documentation to understand things, if I would believe that I wouldn't be on this forum right now (like you said, what would be the point in having a forum?)

But you are right about the fact that everyone can help out in the way they want, and I've clearly stated that this is just my opinion, and I don't feel that it is justified to get such an aggressive response on just an opinion

Ah well, no hard feelings about it, I just hope you can understand just a little bit where I'm coming from

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:20 pm

it is nice to know that my name was thought of first for something LOL!

You certainly arent hurting me and I am certainly not hurting you. We are just having a friendly discussion. A wise man once said that if two people agree on something, one of them is not needed. That may have been me, but I am old and cant remember all of these things.

I did post a nice presale of my stance. <warning, aggressive stance in progress> for you prior to my rant, so I feel like I am justified to spew forth almost any imagineable rant at that point as that is the way of the internet. In any event, I have said my point and wont belabor the issue any further other than to say that I truly hope that you all had a great Christmas and I look forward to arguin.....ummm... chatting with you all in the new year

Sincerely,
A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you, from my family to yours.

Family of Seven (including the wife unit)

Radikalizm · Post by **Radikalizm** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:24 pm

Seven wrote: it is nice to know that my name was thought of first for something LOL!

You certainly arent hurting me and I am certainly not hurting you. We are just having a friendly discussion. A wise man once said that if two people agree on something, one of them is not needed. That may have been me, but I am old and cant remember all of these things.

I did post a nice presale of my stance. <warning, aggressive stance in progress> for you prior to my rant, so I feel like I am justified to spew forth almost any imagineable rant at that point as that is the way of the internet. In any event, I have said my point and wont belabor the issue any further other than to say that I truly hope that you all had a great Christmas and I look forward to arguin.....ummm... chatting with you all in the new year

Sincerely,
A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you, from my family to yours.

Family of Seven (including the wife unit)

I certainly like a good discussion once in a while

And a merry christmas and a happy new year to all of you too

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:00 am

Firstly:

Seven wrote:A wise man once said that if two people agree on something, one of them is not needed.

I love this quote! I also love the fact that someone can put forth a strong opinion without causing those within this thread to scatter to the hills in fright.

hybrid wrote:The way I usually handle this is to answer ... as fast and as short as possible. This will leave enough work for the original poster where the learning takes place. ...

Agreed.

Both Seven and Radikalizm touch on things that I have in mind when reading through new-engine-user threads:
I've been semi-regular for the last year and a half or so, and like many others here, I've seen my share of threads that are "<insert common linker error here> This is broke, how do I fix it?" There are a number of possibilities with a person who has posted that. Perhaps English isn't their first language. Perhaps their new to C++. Perhaps thay're too lazy to read documentation.

For more complicated errors, where the response is typically a pointer into the API docs, and being told "good luck", I see that, at least for me, only pointing to the API may not be fair. An explanation should also be in order. I remember a time when the thought of working with Irrlicht was a bit forbidding because I had no clue what anything did short of "irr::IrrlichtDevice device* = createDevice();" Even still, I am by no means a master with Irrlicht, but I have gotten familiar with which things over see what (VideoDriver vs SceneManager, etc.). Getting used to how things interrelate, and how to use the documentation to find what you're after can be, within itself, a skill to be learned.

My two one-hundredths of your local currency.

lazerblade · Post by **lazerblade** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:35 am

I know this topic is pretty much done but I'd like to throw in my 3.141593
cents.

I think that replies to the n00b section require a balance. For example, if someone wants to know how to do something thats in the manual they should be linked to the manual not given code. But take for example how I started on this forum. I wanted local transformations and working camera control and there was no manual on that. There also was no working code that I could find either. This would be a case in which just giving working code would make sense because it's literally an extension of Irrlicht's features. But it I asked something like "I want to make my application print text to the terminal for debug data", that's IN THE MANUAL. I need pointed toward the manual.

Now that I have that issue resolved, I and others have pointed several new people to my code which is now in the snippets section.

Summary:

Point to the manual when the info is there, if not then give advice or code.