0.14.0

[GueZt]

COOLLL, now 0.14.0 includes "IrrlichtPropsVC2005"
Downloaded it and recompile it to "MS Visual C++ 2005 EXPRESS EDITION"
both LIB/DLL and EXAMPLE without a problem.

BTW: I commented all the "EDT_SOFTWARE2" part to make it work, i got compiler error on that, maybe on my case alone. I dunno.


GOOD JOB!!!!

[Guest]

well to be honest i think the new release just sucks :/ terrain is messed up for me (why do i have to scale the terrain 10 times bigger like with irrlicht 0.12? also i get very _heavy_ Z-fighting issues when enabling dynamic lights or fog for the terrain, and without it it looks just bad. i get 20fps less than before and the iterator stuff is dumb too...)

i´ll just stick with irrlicht-012 then for the rest of my project it works without any major problems

I think we will need more feedback on this to make it a conclusive statement. There are certainly some issues in 0.14.0 and a few bugs that I would hope to have been fixed by now (not even seemingly "difficult" ones). Maybe Niko just enjoys working on adding new features more because it keeps him motivated (understandable) but please - I emplore you to release a fix up version as soon as you can with NO NEW features just improvements on the old ones.

Stability first, then Performance, then features.

Again thanks Niko though for your engine, I understand it is free - we just like it so much and have come to rely on it so obviously we would like to see it fully robust asap.

I myself may be sticking to 0.12 (highly customised) and maybe copy some code over from 14 (directional lights and D3D Anisotropic code for instance)..

can anyone say just "How much better" the new rendering is if you take away Anisotropic, Default 32 textures etc.. this just leaves some "internal mip map optimisations" I belive? The first things are already "there" if you know how, but if he has somehow managed to improve blurry mip maps (regardless of Aniso) then someone give me the thumbs up on that.

The software renderer could be handy - but only for Fast CPU slow/no GPU systems (ie bottle necked systems).. unless you are using it for 2D in which case it come in very handy as a fallback.

Also why didn't Niko just remove his own SOFTWARE renderer and swap it with the new one to save space / complexity?

I think soon the time will come to take what we have - tweak it until it is just right and then rely on our own code.. this will include gathering as many fixes from the wiki etc as possible and making custom builds to suit your needs (which irrlicht is good at thankfully )

[Guest]

well i made screenshots and i compared 012 with 014, makes no difference for me (only when i turn anisotropic filtering on, but thats no "highly improved rendering quality" lol ... anisotropic filtering was possible long before irrlicht)

the terrain problems i dont quite understand, the old terrain was faster and had way less bugs for me so i dont get why he changed it.

also opengl does not support dynamic lights for terrain anymore for me i think. but opengl had always disadvantages in irrlicht.

i think im just going to do like you said (improving irrlicht 012 with many fixes and things from irrlicht 014 and use a highly customized version)

see you!

[niko]

well i made screenshots and i compared 012 with 014, makes no difference for me

Yep, if you are using only OpenGL, you probably won't see a lot difference.

About bugs in the latest release: I think I fixed more than I created new ones, but if it's not the case for your project, I'd say just stay with 0.12. No one forces you to upgrade now. There are sill lots of bugfixes to come in the following versions.

[Guest]

Thanks for a reply Niko.

I guess most of the fixes I was waiting for will be in a later version.

BTW I tested a scene in D3D8... It was Slightly slower in 14 (but negligable) and there was no quality difference, but I already had it as high quality as I could get it in 0.12 anyway. Also this was small interior meshes with lightmaps - it seems you improvements are meant more for Terrain or LARGER (BSP type) areas where have a long viewing distance?

... anyway - thanks again.

[Cleves]

I have a strange problem that have appeard. All my mesh bounding boxes got bigger or something, but now instead of putting mouse on them to select, I can press near them and it will still select the node. any idea what's going on?

[Pr3t3nd3r]

Don't do stupid attack like this.

Of curse the new version have problems. Maybe some patches are not in the new release.
I spend few hours adding my codes .. like draw2dpoint (to 6 renders ... useful for map - gui ..). I wasn't finding the node->culling optimisations but is seems it is here just that it is in other files ... etc
no hardware buffers for static meshes ...

The rendering quality have improved a lot! I have now bilinear filtering and trilinear and is loking so good i don't see any reason to use anisotropic .

The diference is very visible! Just load the demo 1.12 and 1.13+1 in dx mode. Now there is no blur. Now my small ships are really visible.
The speed seems to be the same.
Nico claims to fix some bugs(crushing .. ) and i believe him.


The problems are:
- new software rendering ... probability lot of work! and almost no one cares about it...
- .net version ... many people don't care about this too ...
this additions probability use lot of time to be made ...

An other problem is what do we expect from new versions.
If we have an customized irrlicht version with lot of fixes from the forum ... of curse that when the new version is released what include the fixes we already have is not seems lake much.

It should be a tread with what features we want for the new versions.

GFXstyLER
you already said from a long time that if these the new features you will nod be pleased at all with the new version.
Please tell me 10 features you where expecting from the new release. Everybody can say that they don't like one think, that is nod good enough, it suks .. etc but when comes the time to answer why ... many don't have any reasons, and can not give ani good sugestions for improvement.
ps. and if you do now a list with new features you want ... is anyway too late because the list should be posted before the release ...

In my opinion irrlicht 13 (12+1; 14-1) is the best version until now.

What i will love to see in irrlicht are shader files made by people who know how to mahe them and include them in the release as part of irrlicht ...
(don't know too many people who are using them ...)(ps1.?)

And a more cool demo. we have that q1 old map ... not so cool ...(of curse this is not a useful feature for people who are already using it )


And 1.14 should have the lucky number 1.13



Everybody don't start with stupid thinks like: "just sucks". Even if that was true meybe you should find a bether way to say it and to explain exactly what is the problem.
Imagine how nico must feel if all of you will start with siht like that ... he will probabily get so motivated(and feel so bad) that you will see the next version after 6 monts ... if you are lucky...

Meybe the cvs shold be used. (even if i don't realy know how is really working ...)

And if the new releases are coming at bigger times, and don't have asa many features as we want ... (the more completed it gets the less features will be to add ...)
we shold be more united and cooperating, and we should work together for improving the software. (meybe it becomes too much for one person ... with out some substantial help ... at least on forums)

an because we are the users for it it shold be an sticky post for every version with what features we want ...

[Guest]

Well me (GUEST) wasn't attacking.. of course GFXstyler does usually come across a bit harsh I guess

Anyway there is no way that .14 "sucks" but it just may not fix the right things add be adding things people wont use / dont want.

We all have different needs and it must be tough for Niko to know who best to serve / target.

Personally I don't need Software Rendering OR .NET (.Net is a hinderence and not a help) Along with a few other small areas. These take a lot of time as you said - and MAYBE (just maybe) Niko could concentrate on fixing bugs and improving performance for the OLDER features first (ie the Fixed Function Pipeline that is STILL not fully robust / featured). Adding shaders etc is all very nice but some people need to use irrlicht for older systems as well. Start with the basics (old tech) make them fast / robust and then add new features - that is all I am saying.

Besides I can chop out what I don't need and just keep the improvements.

And I will check out the demos again (I looked last night but nothing struck me as "better" but I had Aniso/AA on in my vid card settings so irrlicht looks "ok" anyway. Also I never suffer from the old "bad mip maps" and "zbuffer" problems because I create my stuff with care (using smaller scale) and work-arounds already.

I suppose the only real dissapointment for me is that I still can not load MY3D files from an archive and judging from the lack of response from other users on that, I assume it is a very trivial bug and that possibly no-one else is using MY3D (at least in archives). That one fix alone would have been a "present" to me and would have cheered me up no end - esp as it is such a minor problem compared to adding in a new rendering and all the massive changes etc...

of course you can say "fix it yourself" - I have fixed many things, but file format exporters are not easy to edit (when you didn't make them yourself especiallY) and I just don't know where the problem lies. ZD (my3d author) says he can't fix it because he sees no problems (but he is using Giles exports and NOT max 7).... Niko said he would look at it, but I don't belive he has because I still can not get it working in 0.14. But i'll have to live with that - I am not going to whine at Niko to fix my main concerns.. I just think he should look at irrlicht overal and implement the more useful stuff and make it robust first.

Also A MAC port is imo more important to the future of the engine than Linux Bug fixes, and even .NET (for now) - this is not to offend anyone who devs on linux or uses .net but irrlicht is fast becomming the only engine without a mac port - it would be great to have that combined with irrlichts ease-of-use to finally make it commercially viable.

It is a great release and I hope he builds on it to make a much quicker .15 release concentrating solely on fixes and performance.

thanks

[dracflamloc]

If you want a mac port you should donate a mac to niko

But btw, since the mac and linux wil rely solely on OPenGL rendering in irrlicht, and mac osx is based on BSD, you would be good to WANT improvements in the linux code.

[xycos]

HOLY SEXORS BATMAN, this is an awesome release! .NET finally gets some love!

[Guest]

lol, why did i know that some of you will start to flame me again, but this time, you loose

1. i did not say "funking IRRLICHT" i just say it "sucks for me", that means: in my opinion it sucks. if its not allowed to have an own opinion at these forums ill leave immediately and never return.

2. i gave reasons why the new release it not so great at all, because a few things that are important to me dont work at all anymore. maybe i have to change a few things, but i dont get why i have to change so much things just because i want to upgrade.

3. i am harsh? in the last 2 weeks i was nicer than ever before, gave answers to the n00biest questions without one single flame, you could say that i really crawled some newbies just up in the ass, this really dissappointing.

4. to niko: i already set that the 0.12 does the job for me and iam very pleased with it, so i dont get your point. all things about 014 were true, i did not flame, and i just said that i think im gonna use 012 instead because it works without problems, and i stated in another thread that i really think 012 is one of the best releases.

5. now some of you suckers follow the leader (niko) and try to get my into a stupid flamewar again, just because i gave some critique. if you cant handle critique in live, please jump off the next bridge, because you would not get far in live anyway. i will _not_ behave like in the past anymore, sorry guys

i dont get why you cant just leave me with 012 and have to post such stupid posts just because i said something negative about irrlicht (and o my god i could tell hundreds of negative things about irrlicht, believe me. but i can tell the same for its positive things. everything in live has positive and negative aspects, you know)


i hope that cleared some things up,

bye

ps: you dont have to answer to my post, you may also just accept it

[Guest]

ah, sorry i forgot the things i expected from 013/014:

1. better speed at terrain drawing because of the spintz fixes, not true
2. bugs fixed with the irrlicht terrain (sometimes the triangleselector stuff/getSceneNodeFrom...blablabla and such things behave a bit weird, but it worked great in general, just in a few cases it was weird), now its even worse
3. irrlichts performance was better when drawing many nodes, not true, it stayed the same or even lower because of the terrain
4. i get z-fighting artifacts on terrain and i dont know whats causing it, turning dynamic lighting and fog off solves it with directx, under opengl dynamic lighting does not even work for me/did i leave something out? i dont know

thats everything i wanted. i can do all the stuff listed above myself with spintz´ s stuff/the forums bugfixes (thanks to the bugfixing forum) and other fixes (integrate it into 012) or do some things on my own (a have very little opengl experience, but its getting better and better ) so i dont have a use for 014 at the moment. i have no problems with 012 so why should i change? i really like the release. what do i have to do to make you and other guys believe that i was not trying to f*ck*ng flame irrlicht??

see you!

[pr3t3nd3r_guest]

you have 4 thinks all related to the terrain ...
if you can fix all those bugs maybe you can try using 12+1 and add those fix to it. And after that post all the fixes on forum so they can be on the next version ...

getscenenodefrom .. i never seit working 100% corectly ...
.... i never tried the terrain , but my impresion is that is not verr completed yet, and there is lot of work to be done with it.

... this remind me ... there was an bsp tree (node) (don't really remember) wat war not completed and after that was taken out ...

hundreds of negative thins about irrlicht ... meybe should be an topic caled this way ... so we will now bether what is wrong and what need to be fixed ...


"i have no problems with 012 so why should i change"
... the main reasons is: If you don't have problems that doesn't mens that other people using your application will not have .
OpenGl i think is only avaible if you have 3d hardware ..
I was geting 2 fps at everithink i tested wit OpenGl because i didn't instaled my video card drivers ... and the dx was working perfectly ...
If you trie to do somethink, and expect many people to use'it you should give a chance for as many users as possble to use'it.

ps.
i have to do lot's of changes too ... to the new version ... like always ...

[hybrid]

If you want a mac port you should donate a mac to niko

But btw, since the mac and linux wil rely solely on OPenGL rendering in irrlicht, and mac osx is based on BSD, you would be good to WANT improvements in the linux code.

No, there is already a Mac port which uses non-Xwindow drawing, so it will be rather independent of Linux graphics. It's been submitted to Nico for some month already, but co has never been published anywhere. Anyway, Nico should speed up the opening of the code via SVN in order to allow better support for those alternative platforms as he apparently does not care that well for these platforms. Probably not so extraordinary, I usually test my code only limited under windows, all checks are performed under Linux. But I have some other people checking and improving the code on other platforms which, in the current release setup for Irrlicht, has to be done right after a release. Which is what we are doing now

[dracflamloc]

Well. I dont care if its not using Xwindow rendering. The point is that it will use Opengl rendering. Hence any OpenGL and some linux enhancements will enchance a mac port as well