I switched to Ogre

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:47 pm

"everything had been imported from some other open source project"

How many years of software development experience do you have? Have you never heard of the phrase "reinventing the wheel"?

Why write new STL classes, when STLPort exists?

Why write new window management and input classes when SDL provides them?

Why write image loading classes when Devil provides them?

Why write something new when NVIdia's Cg is available??

You dig yourself deeper each time you post my friend.

cassini · Post by **cassini** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:49 pm

It is a good thing Niko is so open minded and allow this kind of torpedo of his own engine from Ogre users.
I can tell you that this is not allow on the Ogre forums,
This thread and the similar ones should be deleted all together if you migrate to Ogree, fine go make you post over there we do not need to know about.

cassini · Post by **cassini** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:50 pm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:50 pm

because its fun, you learn a lot and you can proudly say that you've done it yourself. you can not simply say: "if it already exist, dont ever do it yourself", thats very ... stupid ... my friend

AssiDragon · Post by **AssiDragon** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:26 pm

cassini wrote:It is a good thing Niko is so open minded and allow this kind of torpedo of his own engine from Ogre users.
I can tell you that this is not allow on the Ogre forums,

Wrong.

http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... t=irrlicht
http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... t=irrlicht
http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... t=irrlicht

I'm positive there are more threads, I just did a very quick search.

Actually, this thing is called competition. This one of the things that makes open source good. You can compare stuff, and use which suits your needs better. There is no point sticking to anything just because it is what it is; you need to use something because it suits your needs better. And to realize what works better for you, you need to have comparisons, time to time.

cassini wrote:This thread and the similar ones should be deleted all together if you migrate to Ogree, fine go make you post over there we do not need to know about.

If it bothers you so much, why do you read and post? If you can't stand it, you can nicely just not read it you know.

GFXstyLER wrote:because its fun, you learn a lot and you can proudly say that you've done it yourself. you can not simply say: "if it already exist, dont ever do it yourself", thats very ... stupid ... my friend

Now that is a very good point

I do that a lot of times, I must admit. I often feel far more comfortable with handmade stuff than downloaded ones, even if mine is slightly worse - at least I can fully understand it. That said, on large scale I tend to be lazy, and get things if they prove to be a lot of work to do... (Like I tried to write a scripting engine and decided to use LUA in the end...

)

etcaptor · Post by **etcaptor** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:36 am

Both engines has own advantages.
I heard here that Ogre is faster, but on my PC /old 800 MhZ, 32 MB video ram/ Irrlicht was faster then Ogre. I will make some tests with some good hardware soon.
I think that our current user projects cannot takes 100% of engine features right now. Every engine have some missing features. Right, Ogre is older, but Irrlicht is on hard development too.
Also many of users gives own contribution and this enhance engine features.
We all wants to making some nice games, not engines race. So, I stay with Irrlicht.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:05 am

I was getting alot of compiler and linker errors with Ogre the past couple days. I think mostly due to my crappy use of classes and object oriented stuff.

Maybe I got the idea off this thread when a couple people were mentioning using Ogre procedurally instead of through classes. Well tonight I was so frustrated by all the errors I was getting for things that should be relatively easy to do that I decided to try and use the engine in a procedural fashion. I rewrote my broken application from OOP to procedural and I'm having a much better time with Ogre now. That really makes a big difference if you're not too keen on your C++ OOP skills.

On a side note I made a significant step towards making some kind of "real" game tonight. I taught myself modeling and animation the past few months and only the last couple weeks have I been getting back into the programming side of things. Anyway tonight I finally got my model that I've spent months working on loaded into Ogre and animating at the command of my gamepad. I know it's really not alot but it's a big milestone for me.

niko · Post by **niko** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:53 am

Mike wrote: Why write new STL classes, when STLPort exists?
Why write new window management and input classes when SDL provides them?
Why write image loading classes when Devil provides them?
Why write something new when NVIdia's Cg is available??

In Irrlicht? To avoid dependency hell.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:11 pm

I don't get dependency hell when using another STL. STLPort has always worked really well and the one that comes with GCC works too.

Still one of the features I like about Irrlicht, is that it has minimal external dependencies.

AssiDragon · Post by **AssiDragon** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:52 am

STL - and stable STL implementations - are pretty much standard in late compilers. At least I know later GCC versions are OK to use STL with their own implementations, and NET2003 is just as fine with it's own STL.

That said older compilers like VC6 are screwed unless you install STLPort - which isn't hard just likes to cause Internal Compiler Errors sometimes. One of the main reasons why I'm not using that old crappo thing anymore...

Distrubed · Post by **Distrubed** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:58 am

yeah... well I've used Irrlicht in a final project for my DirectX class because the engine we learned with, the Zen Engine, don't ask.. was really bad. I weighted my options, ogre, crystalspace and Torque... toyed a bit with them, but I am a heavy OOP programer and even though Irr isn't the best in the world.. yet... I've been more than happy using it. Currently I'm working on 2 projects independantly with Irr and convinced a club at college that I'm lead programmer of to use Irr. Because 1. its a great learning tool, 2. a lot of control over what can be done, 3. I'm confortable enough with DirectX programing to be able to make the changes I need in the engine directly to be more specific to my app. I'm not raggin' on Ogre or the others, but its a matter of comfort and opinion. Irr has surprized me with its capability, even though it needs some tweeks now and then. But now that I'm writing an server/client app, and getting into networking with Raknet, I'm glad Irr is around. I just wanted to give my kudos to the programers of it cause I'll never want to pull my hair out over an engine. I might even use this for my Final project to get my bachelors in about a year. Majoring in Video Game Programing and Irr has saved my butt more than on one occasion. Keep up the good work and to all other people out there switching, its fine that you switch. Just remember its not a engine that makes a game. they may have limitations, but a good coder will find ways around them and fixes if he needs to. I'm not saying that I'll turn down a full blown commercial engine for my projects, but I'm happy with my open source Irr.

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:23 am

"but its a matter of comfort"

This is probably one of the most important reasons to choose one engine or SDK over another IMO.

visitor · Post by **visitor** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:19 pm

GFXstyLER wrote:i hate .net. isn't .net a microsoft/windows only thing? i hate things which are microsoft only, it makes me mad c++ is the best and will be the next years, thats my point!

visitor wrote: I shall never get tired of answering this
Thou should never get tired of questioning that

The .NET is not a windows only thing, for 9999999999999 time... Not even C#, which, IIRC, Microsoft created but handled over the specs to a worldwide standards comitee.
Anyway skip to this and think again
http://www.monodevelop.com/
http://www.dotgnu.org/

Cheers son

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:08 pm

ORGE is the most advanced rendering/game engine available it's not a surprise a lot of people would use it.

However some of ogres faults are..

Complexity.. I have a basic understanding of C++ Irrlicht taught me how to code and Irrlicht is the only thing I can code for.

Bugs.. with more complexity comes more bugs.

Time.. rather this is Irrlichts fault not ogres but ogre has time on Irrlicht which makes it no surprise it's farther along but the END product is the true divider.

Crappy Editors.. that's right I said it mainly the ogre GUI editor.
someday I plan to make guice cross compatible if I actually take it that far.
not to mention ogre is dependent upon CEGUI rather then it's own class which is a complete bitch to use IMO.

Overloaded CRAP CRAP and more CRAP.. Ogre's tutorial examples crashed my computer because my card I had to swap somebody doesn't have shader technology and it crashed it hard too.. Irrlicht has NEVER crashed my computer..EVER

I wouldn't mind having some of orges advanced features in Irrlicht but it'll be a cold day in hell when I switch over to that sloppy engine Irrlicht may be incomplete but it's my ideal of what a graphics engine should be STREAMLINED and niko don't you dare think IRRLICHT the all powerful is even close to comparison of the slop that a lot of other engines are...

OGRE reminds me of unreal engine..so much bullshit that's not even used most of the time that it gives you LOWLOWLOW frame rates and turns great games in video lagging crap on a pedestal.

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:15 pm

saigumi wrote:I'm from the camp of not knowing anything about 3d and little about C++ when I first started.

My first attempted API was Ogre. After 3 days of stuggling to get the STL_Port library compiled to be about to compile Ogre to use it was a major demotivator.

I then tried the Nebula device... with little success.

Then a few others.

I settled here for the simplicity.

I did try Ogre again a few months ago to run through the tutorials and ran into the exact same STL_Port problems that required a day of trying to remember the problem.

Yes, it's a powerful tool and can do quite a lot. It's just not my cup of tea.

werd brotha!