some suggestions

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:39 am

maybe some already been discussed before, but i think this really can help.

- concentrate on one single model format WHICH WORKS. everything would work just fine with this format. i think people wont mind which format they use as long as it works.

- well organised wiki... imo the wiki is not that well organised... quite messy.

- update the main website more frequently, and with better design, if possible. the new logo is not yet in use?

- engine features! users need more features for their projects.

- where's niko? the main man behind the project should show himself in the forum and talk something.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:24 pm

Virion wrote:- concentrate on one single model format WHICH WORKS. everything would work just fine with this format. i think people wont mind which format they use as long as it works.

Which format would you suggest? Which ones don't "WORK" for you?

If a particular modelling package or converter produces a bad file in that chosen format, then who do you think that users will come to for help? (Hint: Irrlicht)

Also, having to do conversions breaks up your workflow.

- well organised wiki... imo the wiki is not that well organised... quite messy.

Is there any particular reason that you can't change it yourself?

- engine features! users need more features for their projects.

Let's focus our efforts across the board!

Ahem. Can you be a bit more precise?

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:23 pm

Which ones don't "WORK" for you?

I mean, some can be loaded but do not support animation. Getting confused sometimes we can't test it one by one and see which format supports everything and does not cause much problems.

BlindSide · Post by **BlindSide** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:16 am

rogerborg "conveniently" left out the only relevant issue, which is the main website.

Some valid points to ponder over:

- Half of the tutorial links lead to a 404 or use an old/obsolete library/compiler/etc.

- It says is available for .NET even though this has been discontinued, if is going to claim this, then it should link to NETCP (The one taken care of by DeusXL).

- The "recent" screenshots are not so recent.

Infact now that I think about it theres not much that bugs me except for the tutorials section, which needs a little cleaning up.

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:27 am

I think the tutorial page can be removed: directly link to the wiki page.

fireside · Post by **fireside** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:51 am

I don't really agree with one model format. Sometimes it's the modeler that isn't exporting properly. There has been improvement in this area, also. I don't know if it's Blender or Irrlicht but now Irrlicht can use Blender obj and Blender .x files. X files didn't used to import well at all. There are other engines I looked at with basically one and I just quit looking because I couldn't get a Blender model in it. Irrlicht is making good progress. New animation system coming up. Things are good. If you want to do something work on the WIKi like someone said because the engine is being actively developed and going great. My only complaint is we have to use shader language to do bump mapping and light maps.

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:57 am

.obj and .x aren't blender's native model formats either, blender just exporting out the model into the particular format. Even if there's is one single (or two or three, just don't more than that) format supported, as long as you made an exporter it can be exported out from any modelling tools. Anyway, AFAIK the new animation system only work with a few types of models. Moreover, there are quite a few model formats that can be loaded with irrlicht but do not support animation. The main reason I am posting this out is because the more formats you trying to support, the more bugs you gonna face with, especially when you are adding more features to the engine.

By the way... even my friends who just started to try irrlicht, were bugged by the tutorials. They came one by one asking me why this happens. Wow since when I have becoming the spokeman...

Sorry if it sounds rude, just some suggestions that I think can speed up and smoothen the engine development.

p/s. I'm quite happy with the shader system though, especially the CG shader binding.

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:00 am

IMHO we should just concentrate on decent model formats, such as b3d, md5, and collada.

CuteAlien · Post by **CuteAlien** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:03 am

We might have some problem to agree which model format is decent. So far the only model formats which work for us are .obj and .X

I don't care about b3d or md5. Collada is interesting as it has some chances of being the standard format for games in the future, though we don't need it right now.

You see - dropping features is hard :-)

kburkhart84 · Post by **kburkhart84** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm

I kind of have to agree with Virion here on some of this. I don't really say we need our own format, but we need a good one. I'm not sure about collada, but I know b3d would be just fine. I don't know how to do it myself, but I may have a look to see if I can't figure it out. We need some good exporters more than anything else. We have the new animation system by Luke, but it is too hard to good a model into our programs as is, and the issue to me seems a little bit outside of Irrlicht. I undertand that Irrlicht animate .md2, .ms3d, .x, and .b3d. .md2 doesn't really count anymore with Luke's updates, so what is really missing is just to create a really good and working exporter for blender for one of the remaining 3 formats that Irrlicht animates well. Most of us here from what I can tell use Blender, so it would help most. From there, we could get an exporter for max, maya, and whatever else someone needs, but I think an exporter for Blender would be the first priority. I personally am willing to look at the code and see if I can understand it, but I've never really used Python before. If I make any progress, I'll let everyone know.

dlangdev · Post by **dlangdev** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:24 pm

sounds reasonable.

i use blender to model and texture, but still struggle in getting them into irrlicht.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:31 am

Virion wrote:IMHO we should just concentrate on decent model formats, such as b3d, md5, and collada.

You are "we". Which of those are you volunteering to work on?

bitplane · Post by **bitplane** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:33 am

One of Irrlicht's greatest advantages is the number of format choices available, dropping this support wouldn't make any sense.
Nobody can say what the "best" format is, it depends on what you're using it for. MD2 and BSP are the best choice for embedded platforms, STL for meshes from 3D scanners, B3D or X for animated characters, MDL for educational institutions and so on. Then there's the choice of modeling software which depends completely on the artists experience.
We really need to document all the different workflows used for each piece of software, so users can make the decision that's right for them. This is a big job though, and I'm not volunteering to do it as I don't have the modeling experience.

Irrlicht Engine

some suggestions

some suggestions

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