3D character MODELLING - First King Project

[lostanimator]

Hello everybody:

This topic is meant to discharge the First King thread of the posts about modelling for the project, as people started posting stuff on 3D tips and considerations, which to our reckon (as Christian agreed) deserved their own space in the forum, in order to make it easier for users to follow up the partial progress of the 3D content development.

I'm personally involved in the character's modelling, rigging, and animation for the game, and I'd like to thank people's interest in the questions and doubts that were pointed out in the mentionedd thread, which have been an example of relevant and useful information, and constructive feedback.

Please feel free to ask, propose or complete the information that will fill this thread.

Next post will include some captures of the sketches, low polygon models progress, and resources that have been used.

It is our aim to achieve a neat workflow for character development and integration with irrlicht, and therefore any suggestions related to 3D max, pipeline export, .x format, UVW mapping, normal mapping, rigging and animation willl be welcome.

[lostanimator]

Here there are some links to the sketches proposed after the references provide by the game master (Christian Clavet).

http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_front.jpg
http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_side.jpg
http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_back.jpg

This one is a video render of the low poly model covered with a plain color unwrapped UVW texture showing seams and edges, with no smoothing, to be used to hold the normal map texture (still under development). Thank to poopinyourmouth for his incredible tutorials and Veermer for his feedback on anatomy and subdivision tips and comments.

http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis7.avi (mpeg4 codec)

This model is being developed with a 3D max 2008 license, with no other extra tools. Please feel free to comment on possible improvements. Tests with b3d pipeline for this version of max have been unsuccessful up to this moment, but .x format could also be considered (always with the project leader's consent).

Clothing and weapons pending... (being a spanish speaker, this might sound obscene, but it is not...)

As normal mapping is still under developement, any considerations about this matter or rigging systems will be welcome.

[christianclavet]

Superb David! I'm happy that you started it! continue the great job!

[JP]

That's looking pretty cool man, how many polys is it? If you can manage to do a decent normal map then i should think it will look really nice and detailed, regardless of the low number of polys!

I can't really offer any advice on normal mapping or modelling at all as i'm not much of a modeller at all.

I always make my normal maps in photoshop with nvidia's plugin that turns the diffuse texture into a normal map. It's good for simple things but if you want really nice detailed results then i doubt it's much use

[lostanimator]

It's 1308 faces on the principal mesh, plus 256 for the teeth. Thanks for the comments.

[Dorth]

We have a successful 3dmax 8 -> b3d pipeline here, so if you want to contact me for support, I'd be glad to help

[Halifax]

If you need a good sculpting tool, then you probably will want to check out Blender's new, and mature, sculpting tool which provides multi-resolution sculpting. If you would rather go with a more "professional" solution, then I would definitely recommend ZBrush.

[christianclavet]

Yes, If I could help later, I could do the details in Zbrush (I praticed a little). This will generate great normal maps to use on the model.

Dorth, do you have a procedure for using ans setuping the B3D exporter on 3DS? I have tried it and it doesnt seem to work for me.

[sio2]

Here there are some links to the sketches proposed after the references provide by the game master (Christian Clavet).

http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_front.jpg
http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_side.jpg
http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis_back.jpg

http://www.caurium.com/irr/anubis7.avi (mpeg4 codec)

Very good stuff. Your concept sketches are extremely nice. I also notice how they are exactly aligned and ready to be used in the viewport of a 3D app for modelling. Good forward planning. Even I could knock up a model in Max (or Milkshape!) with these quality sketches.

One minor observation I might make is not to model arms directly out from the body on humanoids - model them slightly pointing down. This is so that when the model is rigged there is less distortion around the shoulders when they rotate.

[lostanimator]

sio2 wrote:

One minor observation I might make is not to model arms directly out from the body on humanoids - model them slightly pointing down.

Thanks for the tip. I was already aware of that, but I thought it would be hard to model the arms with such volumetrical detail in a diagonal position.

poopinmymouth's tutorials http://www.poopinmymouth.com/explain the use of planar UV unwrap for groups of faces as the easiest way to visualize these (aligned to a plane).

For me this represents the same reason (for modelling the arms horizontally), as I figured out I can always reshape the shoulders down (the mesh), before rigging, so I get that disadvantage solved (I wish).

So, you simply deal with diagonal aligned arms when modelling?
Or is there any intermediate technique I ignore (surely possible)?.

Thanks for mentioning, imho, for more cylindrical models that would be the most adecuate procedure, not so sure for this particular case. But anyway it's good you pointed it out, as I didn't mention the reason that led me to do it this way.

[Dorth]

Well, first off, it's a one direction pipeline. We haven't been able to re-import the b3d in 3d smax, though that's not really a problem, since you'd most likelly would prefer a loseless save as a .max

Now, we've succeeded with 3d studio max 7 & 8, both with same steps. For the others, I'd guess following the proper steps would work too, but I can't garantee it.

1st - install max7 or 8
2nd - get B3dPipeline.zip AND Max6_patch.zip from http://www.onigirl.com/pipeline/
extract to appropriate folder, following the hierarchy for B3dPipeline.zip. For Max6_patch.zip, inside you'll find a plug-in, overide the one previously installed (so you'll need to find the right plugin folder, can't remember which, it'll ask for overwrite when you'll get the right one.

Ok, if you did it up to here, you should be good for basic exports.

To test, make a cube, make a material, put a picture in the material, put the material on the cube, select the export option from the menu (not export selected, it is not supported), find b3d from the drop-down, choose it and export the b3d where you want, with the texture in the same folder. Load in Irrlicht. You should have a WYSIWYG.

I can say for sure that bones and animations are supported. For the rest, you'll have to experiment or contact m so that I forward your Q to our artist ^^

[vermeer]

For me this represents the same reason (for modelling the arms horizontally), as I figured out I can always reshape the shoulders down (the mesh), before rigging, so I get that disadvantage solved (I wish).

So, you simply deal with diagonal aligned arms when modelling?
Or is there any intermediate technique I ignore (surely possible)?.

In wings, what I do (I have a key for that, as always you hit INS key, and then press a key if wanna change) , is I hit my key for "align to selection".That can be a face or bunch of faces (takes teh average) So I allways model "as in a top veiw".But I usually I just go ahead and model however I posed the arm, an dif I need a top view I do what i told you. been long time since last I modeled with max (I mostly like it for animation) , but pretty sure it has some similar option,or if not through some script or plugin...Also wings/mirai viewport handling is much faster, it never changes zoome when switching views at key hsort cuts, etc, and allows certain weird stuff while rotating viewport..which as far as I remember can't do Max. So, probably is more unconfortable not to model as you do, with top view. Tho most top artists go straight on and model with diagonal arms from start.

yep, you can totally remodel shoulder later, is perfectly possible.

Is true that about the riggng. But depends on future animations: imagine the model was never to put arms down, all time wearing weapons with arms raised totally..then horizontal would be so much better, for again, less distortion.

Anyway, you'll have to deal a lot with careful weights and great positioning of shoulder joint, so... I like putting extra bones there, but is rarely allowed in a production or team.

rigging is gonna be complex also for dorsal huge muscle ...but whatever, easy things aren't exciting...


you made me jealous with that 2008 license...

[vermeer]

Bout b3d, I insist on the unwrap3d route... I'm aware of some issues using pipeline also for characters...For scenery am aware as well that is instead, awesome...

[Dorth]

What issues please? We are working with the pipeline I've described bove and don't have problems. If there's a hidden issue, I'd like to learn about it, if not, why spread rumors?

[vermeer]

With animated characters?
I am not spreading rumors. many like me(some pro devers, who earn their food with this like I did) saw certain issues. To be sincere, I don't remmeber well them, but they were a few.

I only do say to make life easier to the guy, no more intention, and not saying is a bad plugin, is amazing for scenery. I have not a single problem on using each tool for what it does best.