Legal Questions

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 2:27 am

If I make models of real guns and use them in my game would I need to get permission from the gun companies? If so, could I give them a fake name and use them legally without permission? A ton of games use guns but I'm not sure if they all went out and got permission or not. I know car companies seem to be very strict about having their cars in games. I'm not sure if gun companies are the same way. If someone could shed some light on this it would be much appreciated.

hendu · Post by **hendu** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:22 am

Generally yes, you'd need permission, or to use fake names & not complete likeness (change a color or a position of something clearly etc).

Otherwise, stick to those that were designed over 70 years ago

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:01 pm

Thanks for the reply. What I don't get is how so many games, both professional and amateur, use modern guns in their games without drastically modifying them. I seriously doubt they all contacted each company for every gun they used. Would it be ok to use the guns but not include the company's name or logo? Also it would be nice to provide a link to where you are getting your info.

Sylence · Post by **Sylence** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:08 pm

Adler1337 wrote:I seriously doubt they all contacted each company for every gun they used.

Why do you doubt this?
Just send an email to the company. They will tell you if it's ok or not.

hendu · Post by **hendu** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:43 pm

No source, just common sense. Patents won't apply since you're not actually manufacturing, so it's trademarks and copyright.

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:46 pm

Sylence wrote:
Adler1337 wrote:I seriously doubt they all contacted each company for every gun they used.
Why do you doubt this?
Just send an email to the company. They will tell you if it's ok or not.

I doubt it because if I'm using guns by 20 different companies and one of them says no that can completely screw up my game. Also they could say yes and charge a fee, and I doubt amateur game developers would be willing to pay that, yet there are tons of amateur games that use real guns. Lastly, they could have rules that I would have to follow. I read somewhere that with car companies they have rules like no flipping and only one wheel can be airborne. Professional studios would be willing to follow a strict list of rules, but I highly doubt amateur game developers would be willing to follow, or do follow, any list of rules. I thought car companies were strict about their vehicles being in racing games because those games use the car companies names as a major selling point. Which makes me think that if I were to not include brand names or logos of gun companies, yet use models I made of their guns, that I would be ok. Contacting the companies is something I would do if I knew for sure that I needed their permission. I created this topic to see if anyone has had experiences with this or could point me to some facts. Surely someone has made a game with guns in it

Sylence · Post by **Sylence** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:01 pm

Possibly breaking the law because everybody does so doesn't seem very wise

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:17 pm

@Sylence If I was planning on breaking the law I wouldn't have started this thread. I just want some facts. Google doesn't seem to know anything about this, and I figured someone on here has made a game with guns in it.

hendu wrote:or to use fake names & not complete likeness (change a color or a position of something clearly etc).

I have no problem using fake names and a lot of games do it, but their guns (although they have fake names) look identical to the real thing (minus logos, etc.) How do all these games get away with it?

hendu · Post by **hendu** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:41 pm

I don't know if the companies care. I do know that if they do, they would have a case: if you use their name / their model names, you use their trademark. If you use their model's likeness, it's copyright and possibly trademark infringement.

Do you really need identical copies? AK-47 would be fair game, but for a recent rifle does it matter if the handle is slightly different?

edit: Actually, no, even the ak-47 would still be under copyright

http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Russi ... 02209.aspx

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:31 pm

I thought guns couldn't be copyrighted, only trademarked and patented.

If I used the company's name or the name of the gun then it would be a trademark issue. So if I used it's "likeness" and it isn't copyrighted because it's a gun (if i am correct) then I would only be possibly infringing on its trademark. I guess I have to look up trademarking.

hendu · Post by **hendu** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:46 pm

Why couldn't guns be copyrighted? It's an invention just as much as anything else.

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Thu May 05, 2011 9:17 pm

Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture.

Plus I've heard from many other places that guns can't be copyrighted. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I gather from my research.

It's an invention just as much as anything else.

I'm 99% sure patents are for inventions.

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:52 am

Ok so what I've gathered from my research is I can make a model of a gun without logos or other trademarks and without modifying the design can use it in a commercial video game legally. If I were to sell said model (replica w/o logos) by itself without permission and without modifying it, it would be illegal. This is just what I've concluded after a few hours of research, so if somebody knows something I don't please post. Otherwise I'm just going to go by what my research said and deal with any legal consequences.

lazerblade · Post by **lazerblade** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:03 am

If I were to sell said model (replica w/o logos) by itself without permission and without modifying it, it would be illegal.

If that is true, then how would this work?

use it in a commercial video game

If you sell the game, are you not also selling the 3d models that come with it?
Or are you giving the 3d models in the game away free? Or maybe just the gun models are free?

Like if I were to use somebody else's commercial music in my game without permission, it would be illegal because of the same law. Provided the guns are copyrighted.

What's so scary about e-mailing the company anyway? If you're after the most legal thing, whatever stupid rules they have still apply to you whether or not you ask them.

Adler1337 · Post by **Adler1337** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:49 am

If you sell the game, are you not also selling the 3d models that come with it?

No. Think of it like this, if you watch a movie that has a car in it (no visible logo so not to infringe on trademark) are they selling you the car that is in the movie? No, they are selling you the movie which happens to have a car in it.

If that is true, then how would this work?

I'll try to explain this as best as I can. If I were to take pictures of a car and sell them, that would require permission, since I would be directly profiting off of the car (somebody else's original work)

Like if I were to use somebody else's commercial music in my game without permission, it would be illegal because of the same law. Provided the guns are copyrighted.

Again I'm 99% sure you can't copyright a gun. Also music and guns are two completely different subjects. I made the model. You did not make the song. If you were to do a cover of the song it would be a better comparison. You don't (to the best of my knowledge) need to obtain permission to do a cover of a song, but I believe you have to credit the original artist.

Edit: Also if I am interpreting the law wrong and I do need permission to use the gun with or without logos, then where is the line drawn. Do I need permission to use a chair or table in my game? If I am wrong and this is the way things work, then very few video games/movies/TV shows would exist.