Irrlicht Engine

Do you guys have [your own definition of] success in your lives as a programmer?

If so, explain why

I'll start --

I believe I'm working toward my success as a programmer. Working as a software engineer intern and in college for CS by day, and programming my own personal projects by night.

Success is a very personal thing. Your definition of success is affected by your personality and your current life situation. By its nature, it is ever changing, and it's all about the journey and not the destination. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, I may redefine success as being able to walk again.

But I understand what you're asking, and I'm sure you're not looking for a buddhist answer.

Right now, I consider myself as successful by my own standards. I'm (slowly) learning the ropes of 3D programming as I'm working full time for a game development company. I earn enough money to provide for my kids and to have projects with my girlfriend (travels, renovations in the house, etc). Once I'll be well versed as a 3D programmer, I'll set myself a new goal and try to reach it, as part of my ever changing journey toward success.

MartinVee wrote:I'm working full time for a game development company.

As I would love to work for a game development company some day, how did you get there?

LunaRebirth wrote:As I would love to work for a game development company some day, how did you get there?

I guess I did exactly as you're doing. I went to college to get a degree in Computer Programming and Analyst. I made a few simple 2D games in my spare time (because back then, 3D was a new shiny tech, and my Pentium 133 mhz didn't handle it very well ).

I worked as a more traditional programmer in a few jobs before I had the opportunity of joining the gaming industry. But that was always my goal, and I kept myself interested and available for it.

MartinVee wrote:I worked as a more traditional programmer in a few jobs before I had the opportunity of joining the gaming industry. But that was always my goal, and I kept myself interested and available for it.

So like you had a software engineering job and then eventually got a job in the gaming industry?
Was it at first like an indie game company?

Game dev is not that great if you are not able to work on games you like or in sectors you enjoy most. Take this game/app I did:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nnie&hl=it

This app was very fun to program, at begin, then "management" started to stress us by requesting small changes, see those were not good idea and rollback / do other changes.

The project manager comes from a industry of toys, so I doubt he had any idea on how game dev works. The app itself is not that bad, actually you can find it fun for up to 15 minutes (keep in mind it is aimed to really small babies). They kept changing requisites and ignoring mine and another developer suggestions for months, than after their "testing" department provided feedback they wanted us to implement suggested changes (in 1 week :/,: in example in the male Mickey version we suggested a gear icon for selecting birthday age). Also they missed the point, actually most people just bought the pluche without buying or downloading the app, while the people who randomly downloaded the app from stores was not happy because honestly there's too little value for 0,99€ of price and the Augmented reality section requires the pluche anyway to work. So it is a pity seeing wasted so much effort, also because I doubt that industry will continue to invest in game development after that app insuccess.

I'm not even sure if it is good to put that game on the resume, but it is not fault of team of programmers (actually I did most programming, another guy implemented in app-purchases/third parties libraries integrations and another one did animations). So most people imagines gamedev is like working on GTA or stardewvalley, but if you want to be paid you have to work on stuff that most times is under-budgeted because managed by people who don't understand games and is blind to suggestions with tight deadlines and some times you have to work on something that is totally crap. I think the best thing one can do is:

- Find a interesting job not related to game dev
- Do some game development with some experienced team (at least 1 year), you can learn a lot if you find the right guys
- Then develop your own game in free time.

Indies are not wellcome in gaming industry, if you become indie you cut your chances to work on AAA titles, and that's as far as I understand for the following reason

- They want people who gives the maximum, they want to know your ideas so they can test it and eventually put it in a title, if you are a Indie it is likely you will keep your ideas for yourself to be used later in your own game.
- most times game deve companies provide the training, so they are searching usually for unexperienced but promising developers and requires 99% of time relocation.

To me a successfull programmer is someone that find a position that allows him to grow skill without too much stress in a friendly working environment. Of course there are just very few people like Notch and Carmack, so if you consider them successfull programmers, then there are not that many successfull programmers. Actually I find it is a quite deflated job, when people like Bill Gates or Zuckerberg says there should be more programmers, and people actually choose to study CS because of that, they are just increasing offer of programming jobs, thus decreasing the average salary. (yeah big companies want that infact XD)

LunaRebirth wrote:So like you had a software engineering job and then eventually got a job in the gaming industry?

Exactly! I just kept my eyes opened for job openings, and continued to work on my craft on my spare time. Back then, I didn't have kids, so I had plenty of spare time.

LunaRebirth wrote:Was it at first like an indie game company?

You could say that, yes. I'm working in a niche sector of the gaming industry, which shielded me from most of the bullshit REDDemon is talking about. I consider myself very lucky.

REDDemon wrote:To me a successfull programmer is someone that find a position that allows him to grow skill without too much stress in a friendly working environment.

Truer words were never spoken. Unfortunately, like he said, working in the gaming industry is almost garanteed not to give you this environment.

Take here, for example. The Governement of Quebec is giving big tax breaks to gaming companies, so in the last decade or so, a lot of studios poped up in the province. This has created a demand for programmers, but since there's a lot of very good CS schools, there is also a huge offering. This put us programmers in a very uncomfortable situation. Sure, there's lot of game programmer jobs, but :

• if you want a job, your CV has to stand out from a pile of other CVs probably stacked higher than yourself ;
• since there's a lot of candidates, you then become an expendable asset. So if you don't perform by management's standards (read here "work for 60-70 hours a week and meet production deadlines"), you're fired (and you may cross your replacement in the lobby).

This environment creates more of a harrowing than fun experience for programmers.

And when you really get down to it, the job of programming a game ressembles the job of programming a database-driven management application : you create a flexible architecture, you code classes, you manage resources, you fix bugs...

My definition: To have the skills and resources to code on projects that interest you.
(my secondary definition: being able to pay your rent)

As for working for a game development company - I think you are on a good way already. It's tricky to get jobs to work on AAA games (basically needs experience on a few smaller games first). But finding jobs in smaller game companies is not that hard. Especially if you already have demos that show that you worked in this area before. With CS are already nearly overqualified ;-)
Basically: Know c++ and be familiar with vector/matrix math and you are good to go.