Do you wants to include My3DTools in Irrlicht 0.9 ?

ZDimitor · Post by **ZDimitor** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:48 am

The subject.

So if you want, lets together ask nico to do it!

afecelis · Post by **afecelis** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:03 am

They've already been included in NX, I don't see why not include them in 0.9.

although the external loader works ok for me.

Jedive · Post by **Jedive** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:25 pm

No, I would much rather like to have all the formats removed from the engine, and adding a new .irr format, and then move all the mesh laoders to a separate tool which loads a mesh and exports it to .irr.

And it would be cool to have as much formats supported as possible with that tool.

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:16 pm

did you had a look at MIM format ?

etcaptor · Post by **etcaptor** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:19 pm

I vote - yes. my3d resolve many problems with lightmaps and shadows. Also support dynamic lights.
About idea for "separate tool which loads a mesh and exports it to .irr" in other engines I've got only problems.

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:30 pm

For those not having Max, (price tag) MIM has support for two uv channels, lightmaps, vertex normals and smooth groups, materials and textures, and is structured in a way it would be doable to add multitexturing in several layers (In which I think u were interested, jedive) if I remember well what Murphy told me.

For those having Max, I see it really cool if my3d gets into the engine...

IMHO is cool to have allways both ways: comercial-application spcific/free-every tool applies. MIM by the use OBJ is the second one. You can export an OBJ with whatever.

Yet though, those having Max don't actually need to go through other thing than probaly hitting an export button.

I'd vote to include both, MIM and MY3D.

.

wolfsb · Post by **wolfsb** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:07 pm

thanks to ZDimitor's gile(s) exporter the lightmap issue does no longer cause headaches for me. it is a wonderful piece of work and I vote - yes. the my3d format should be included.

wolfsb, berlin

ZDimitor · Post by **ZDimitor** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:18 am

2vermeer:
1) My3D Tools now has a Gile[s] exporter, so you don't need to have MAX
2) My3D format able to store much more (no limited) texture channels then only 2 (i want to use several texture channels fo the lightmaps to be able to change them in run time)

2Jedive:
Why isn't it be a .my3d format? I can rename it to .irr

Jedive · Post by **Jedive** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:37 pm

Why isn't it be a .my3d format? I can rename it to .irr

hehe, haven't tried the .my3d format, although I will, now that it has a gile[s]
exporter. Does .my3d support all the things that IrrLicht does? Animaton, material types, etc. For what I've seen, it's a format for static lightmapped meshes, so it is not the same as the .irr format I was talking about.

The .irr idea is more similar to the .b3d format in Blitz3D, which support all the features of Blitz3D.

ZDimitor · Post by **ZDimitor** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:20 pm

This materials now automatically loading from *.my3d file into Irrlicht:
EMT_SOLID
EMT_LIGHTMAP_M2
EMT_REFLECTION_2_LAYER
EMT_TRANSPARENT_VERTEX_ALPHA
EMT_TRANSPARENT_REFLECTION_2_LAYER

Animation not supported (it's a format for a static geometry) you right.

lko · Post by **lko** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:27 pm

.irr sounds a lot better than .my3d. Just for the marketing stuff. I would prefer it.

Or if you don't like .irr how about something like .irs with s for static?

ZDimitor · Post by **ZDimitor** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:11 am

2lko: There is no .irr (it's just a dream of the Jedive), and .my3d is reality.

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:41 am

I do like the existance of My3D , really, but Max is a comercial tool as well as Giles is.... MIM instead allows the use of free tools, and as OBJ is universal, the import from any comercial tool.

Yet though I'v allways thought that there's room and even need of customized pipelines with specific packages in an engine...that's the way we worked in certain companies...

But for an indy engine, I think is more important that the average joe does not have to use a warezed max, or purchase Max...Giles is a good option and imho you made a great thing doing the importer (yet though, I already exported my level with mim tools, as Giles has the most seamless OBJ+OBJ export...(much before mim appeared)) ...but as this is an open source project , I like the idea of it being able to play with open source tools. Also, Murphy's OCT tools allow exporting a full level into irrlicht, he even made a customized Fsrad to be loaded in Linux wine... While Giles and Max are totally windows based. Besides, in his non oct but OBJ MIM way, OBJ is totally universal, you have I/O in Blender, LW, Maya, Max, K3d, ANY....any package.If not natively, by free plugin, as curiously, that one is allways free.

Well, that's my position in the poll, which is not yes or no

Indeed, I think is SENSATIONAL to have such a polished (I think ask it haviong also animation is such a kind of a task, if anyone find the guy eager to use so much time in a free project, hey, no objections, but imho, is unrealistic...so, being My3d and MIM, OCT static is nothing I really worry...) MAX pipeline now with My3d...is just I keep seing really important the mim tools and Murphy's oct workflow, I've been betatesting, and imho is one of th egreatest pipelines I have seen (and I've seen quite some..)

Indeed: There's all the Mohaps work, also. he made (like Murphy) deled loaders, cartography map loader, and a load of other stuff....

Which is the one to make "native" ?

Well, my bet would be MIM, but then the answer here is not MY3d couldnt be also.

I think we all should leave Niko think quietly what he prefers (anyway, imho he'll do what he thinks best, which also I prefer, as totally rely on his criteria)

Jedive seems to be betting by a new idea, irr, being comparable to b3d. B3d in blitz can port lightmaps, multitexturing (correct me if I am wrong, jedive, it's up to 2 layers more above the lightmap) , but also can animate , supporting bones, weights, and even spline interpolation in bones anim (just the blitz3d rendering is arcaic dx7 and cannot support more than linear interpolation, or that I'm told allways I cried for it.)

Yet though the idea of jedive for me has a problem:I think there's valuable work already done by many parties....not all, but some of the formats could surely be adapted...
Also, another problem for the irr...well, or not, as I asume ur proposing ...like I saw in other engines, do a native for the engine, and then converters to that format...In my experience, the converters never come or come rarely. Specially as formats like x are hard to code.Quite a bit, I'm told. So that would harm a lot the already *small* artist comunity in irrlicht: for now at least you can export from most packages the anim thing (my XSI, Max, Maya, LW, Blender, etc) ...if u put a native irr, and for one reason and another (trust me, it will easily happen) x never comes...man , that'd be a real ugly move...even if just takes some months...reasons like that make ppl move to other engines...

If us see comercial games, not necesarilly all use a format for all and everything, but usually have one for levels, one for characters. There's too much specific info for each...

So, I have no real answer for this poll.But wanted to give my general opinion on the subject.

wolfsb · Post by **wolfsb** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:52 am

vermeer: it seems you did have a chance to try out Murphy's OBJ2MIM tools. So far, I haven't seen an official release (not even on his web site), which is fine, because it is Murphy's decision whether or not or when he is going to make this tools available to the general public. but unless I haven't tried it out I can not really vote for or against .... so, to decide if it suits, we should have a possibility to work with it.

wolfsb, berlin

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:52 am

...and btw, if any format would be added for the anim part, as is getting spread in the packages, and is much powerful than x for the task, I'd vote for md5, doom3 format. I see very pro people adopting it for their prototypes/engines....

And it can birng more info in the file.Again, that one is specialized in characters, is not for sceneries. If you see my point.

yet though, x keeps being a need: xsi, and some other packages are only supported by *.x, plus all the md5 supported ones (except Gmax) are also supported by x....(md5 ones are Max, gmax, Blender. True that xsi and maya also, but for these two u need to have the game.)

Anyway, imho is better adressed level stuff, as character animation is averagely solved already....
Anyway, imho is adressed, with all this formats. Is probably the engine where you have more freedom of choosing.And dunno the others, but what I have tested, MIM , is perfectly usable. The other ones I dunno, I suppose also.