SPINTZ WTF?

[Athlon_Jedi]

thanx for getting back with me on the 64 bit issue really liked the way that was handled. anyways i have a problem with your source. for some reason even though i have every single include directory in the sdk listed in the include dir search path , it says it cant find :

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c:\documents and settings\james\desktop\irrlicht-spintz-0.12\source\irrlicht\cd3d8shadermaterialrenderer.h(13) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'D3dx8core.h': No such file or directory

and i also have the october directx sdk and the includes dir for it listed as well as the library files. WTF? i have to recompile your source because when i try to use it straight from the bianay package to the source, it says this:

Code: Select all

unhandled exception in "whatever" [3332]

what gives man?

[latentdisposition]

You need an older version of the DirectX SDK that still has the DirectX 8 headers. I believe that afecelis has it for download here.

http://www.danielpatton.com/afecelis/files/

If you don't need or want DirectX 8 you can just comment out that part.

[Guest]

unhandled exception in "whatever" [3332]

does the error message really say "whatever" ? lol

[Spintz]

Theres something about how DirectX8 is no longer support on Visual Studio after version 6 or something like that. The newer SDKs are getting rid of DX8 as well. I have the same problem, so I just change IrrCompileConfig.h to not include DX8.

[Guest]

i see no use for directx 8 anymore, so why dont kick out out of the original irrlicht too?

[Athlon_Jedi]

well that would make sense since im using visual studio.net 05 team developer edition lol

ill give that a try

thanx

[Wellnässer]

i see no use for directx 8 anymore, so why dont kick out out of the original irrlicht too?

And what about the people which are still happy with their DX8 hardware. I have a GF4TI and i am not gonna buy such a noisy, power source blowing, greedy monster card. Guess their are still quite a few of us. Maybe you want to think of others sometimes? Apart from that pushing sales for the HW-industry is certainly not your coolest occupation.

You sound like a teeny sometimes.

[dracflamloc]

Man... Just because you only have a dx8 card doesnt mean that a dx9 compiled game/engine wont run on it.

[Guest]

i see no use for directx 8 anymore, so why dont kick out out of the original irrlicht too?

FFS no! We have had this discussion over @ ogre forums. Please people understand - the use of "older" tech like DX8 (and 7) is essential for ANY engine to be used by potential shareware authors interested in distributing their games to the widest possible audience. I don't really have time to post thousands of links on discussions about this but please understand DX8 is essential for windows shareware games because using DX9 puts it out of the mass market for the "typical" shareware (casual/semi casual) buyer. Also be aware that *I* know you can update to DX9 even with very old hardware but the point is these "Buyers" will not - they STICK with what is on their system (in the case of Winxp vanilla that is DX8). Even OpenGl is somewhat lacking (with extention problems) on older system or systems that the user NEVEr bothers to upgrade.

These users are a million miles away from us "hardcore" users / developers and they are literally scared to update anything - therfore if your DX9 game will not run on their system they won't download it at all rather than upgrade to DX9 *EVEN IF YOU POINT THEM TO THE FREE UPDATE* with a link...

It was until recently DX7 that was the sweet spot but now DX8 is taking over (thanks to winxp being so widespread) it will be a while yet before DX9 is the "common" api in use on the majority of casual/shareware games audiences systems... and OGL is hit and miss on those for the previously mentioned reasons.

So.. leave DX8 just where it is thankyou! Old technology, not as streamlined as DX9 as it may be it is needed for many of us using irrlicht for more than "tech demos" and "another FPS".

[Guest]

since sp2 for windows xp direct x 9 is standart and windows vista will have direct x 9 as standart too. users which are scared of installing the new directx9 dont play games anyway since they would be even more scared to even update their videocard drivers.

just because you have a dx8 card it doesnt mean you cant play dx9 games ...

[Spintz]

IrrSpintz will have no updated put in for DirectX8. OpenGL will only have limied updates and the full concentration of my work be using DirectX9.

As far as removing DirectX8, I will simply have the flag set in IrrCompileConfig.h to not compile DX8 by default. If you add it, it won't work unless you update it with all the other new enhancements.

And for OpenGL, I'll do my best to get things working, but I'm not spending days and days on it. OpenGL is not in good shape in Irrlicht. Honesttly, if you want good fast OpenGL rendering look at another engine.

The current issues with getting things working in OpenGL are

• Renderstates are fubared
• In order to achieve the advanced detail mapping I've just implemented in DirectX9, I need OpenGL renderstate functions compatible with D3DTA_TEMP and D3DTSS_RESULTARG from DirectX, which so far, no one is sure, they probably have to go hunting through EXT and ARB extensions to see if there is( this is my primary problem with OpenGL ), and I'm not wasting my time doing that anymore.

If you don't like it, don't use IrrSpintz!!

[Spintz]

Windows Vista will be using DirectX 10, if I'm not mistaken.

[Athlon_Jedi]

asfor the dx 8 / 9 debate, those of use whom are acculy planning on releasing comercial games even need to still support dx 7 as long as its not on a "dirt bag" system (Anything less than 450 mhz these days) there are simply people out there that have no idea they should uptade dx or even windows for that matter.

then you have the you have the ones who believe everything they hear from thier email, or other bogus sources(friends, family, the pope) about how updateing ANYTHING in windows will break it.

and so on and so on.

that does not mean you can not use the good stuff from even dx 4 sdk the big problem is with driver support for those older dx apis, some still have it others dont. it has nothing to do with weather a cirtian version of COMPILER or SDK supports it .

the best thing to do is to figure out what the most likely low end system your final product is likely to encounter and build it up from there. this can be a tricky under taking but it will ensure you the broadest compatibility .

[Guest]

since sp2 for windows xp direct x 9 is standart and windows vista will have direct x 9 as standart too. users which are scared of installing the new directx9 dont play games anyway since they would be even more scared to even update their videocard drivers.

just because you have a dx8 card it doesnt mean you cant play dx9 games ...

UNfortunatley that is once again completely missing the point - you are preaching to people who are on the same page as you, we KNOW you don't need a DX9 card to play DX9 games (where did anyone say that?) this is about what athlon jedi and I have said only - that there are MANY people who actually (for your information - sorry you are not informed enough on this area ) DO buy and play Casual 3D games but can not or will not update - it is a simple FACT found out by many many people who have tried pushing the envelope and failed (in sales) but again this is only if you are thinking of setting up a business and not just knocking out game demos / tech demos or other stuff for your own amusement. If you want to attempt to make an FPS or something and want to use all the tricks then I agree you should use what you have to - but there are many other kinds of games that need 3D engines but do NOT need the advanced stuff - this is the sweet spot that sells to the main target audience of downloadable games (Which again for your information is NOT teenage boys but in fact 40+ WOMEN with walmart PCS preconfigured to ONLY run DX8 and have shoddy OGL drivers and NO interest in updating to DX9 - regardless of SP2 (which I already clearly mentioned above in my last post) and certainly VISTA has nothing to do with for a long time yet until it has penetrated down to the lowest spec systems

at the moment the low systems are 500mhz, dx7 tnt2 systems - there are many people who own these systems who will by "small" games for them.. this is the target audience I speak of, not the D3 and HL2 lot (like ourselves) who jump on every new driver release and DX update.

Go look at any of the big ONLINE indie game portals and you will see that the vast majority of their games run using DX7/8 (not even OGL due to bad drivers on old systems) with the very rare DX9 game. Dome portals wont even ACCEPT games that use DX9 because they know their customers cant/wont play them - and this is because of their customers computer fear or ignorance or whatever you want to call it - it is a fact - this portals make millions of $$ by doing this research and make it clearly known that widespread compat is more important than the latest shader technique *IF* you intend to sell any games you make or even if you just want to get as many people as possible to play them.

there are two distinct areas of development here.. people who never consider making "small games" for "semi-core" or even "casual" audiences will NEVER understand why we need that older tech (again I stress it is NOT because there hardware won't work with it - it is because they REFUSE to update drivers etc - this doesn't mean they do not buy games - tell that to the indie-devs who make a living and pay for houses from their games - they will tell you different and be thankfull for dX8 moreso DX7 and further back in time Software only rendering.

For the next 2 years at least DX8 is going to be the max of the sweet spot - then dx9 will be "OK" - even though DX10/next will already be being used by us hardcore players/devs.

I hope this finally explains the reasons clearely to all so no-one needs to post "you don't need DX9 card to play DX9 games" (hint: we know that)


thanks

[Guest]

where did anyone say that?

take a look at "Wellnässer"´s post and stop writing a whole article about your stupid bullshit.

for your information, i did not read more than the first two lines, so too bad hahahaha