If you believe that Niko should open up a CVS Repository to enhance the features and already greatness of the engine then please sign The Irrlicht CVS Petition!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/irr4438/petition.html
Irrlicht CVS Petition
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Guest
Re: Irrlicht CVS Petition
This is OpenSource not a democracy. Niko does what ever he likes with Irrlicht and I think thats good.Anonymous wrote:If you believe that Niko should open up a CVS Repository to enhance the features and already greatness of the engine then please sign The Irrlicht CVS Petition!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/irr4438/petition.html
However, before he decides to dump Irricht (it's been a very long time since the last update, reminds me of the NeoEngine) giving the current development state to the comunitiy would be a very nice thing to do.
Regards
Josele
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Guest
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knightoflight
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:47 pm
- Location: Germany
My opinion:
1. If you are a member of this forum, dont use "Guest", tell us who wants such a petition.
2. I think it should be no problem to start an official spin-off of irrlicht, cause in the license is written under point 2:
> Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be > misrepresented as being the original software
Or have i misunderstood something ?
1. If you are a member of this forum, dont use "Guest", tell us who wants such a petition.
2. I think it should be no problem to start an official spin-off of irrlicht, cause in the license is written under point 2:
> Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be > misrepresented as being the original software
Or have i misunderstood something ?
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Guest
The main reason that there isn't a CVS repository has been discussed before and it simply boils down to:
1. The engine framework is still changing dramatically, so there is one chef in the kitchen with other chefs feeding input from the dining room.
2. We do have an unofficial side-item called "Third Party Irrlicht Modules" or TPIM, if you have any changes or additions, you can add them via that process.
3. There are enough bug submissions and "why isn't X working" comming from the current releases. Since the engine is changing dramatically still, people pulling from yesterday. Trying to pull teeth to get someone to say that they were using a CVS pull instead of a point release build when they encounter a bug can be very aggrivating.
I've had situations myself where a half month after I fix a bug, I still get reports of it, which I thought the current CVS version had fixed. After debugging for a few days and trying to figure out where the "new" bug is at, the person says "Oh, I pulled this from CVS three weeks ago and I just pulled again and it works."
4. Niko has said before that he plans to put it in CVS when Irrlicht hits 1.0.
1. The engine framework is still changing dramatically, so there is one chef in the kitchen with other chefs feeding input from the dining room.
2. We do have an unofficial side-item called "Third Party Irrlicht Modules" or TPIM, if you have any changes or additions, you can add them via that process.
3. There are enough bug submissions and "why isn't X working" comming from the current releases. Since the engine is changing dramatically still, people pulling from yesterday. Trying to pull teeth to get someone to say that they were using a CVS pull instead of a point release build when they encounter a bug can be very aggrivating.
I've had situations myself where a half month after I fix a bug, I still get reports of it, which I thought the current CVS version had fixed. After debugging for a few days and trying to figure out where the "new" bug is at, the person says "Oh, I pulled this from CVS three weeks ago and I just pulled again and it works."
4. Niko has said before that he plans to put it in CVS when Irrlicht hits 1.0.
Crud, how do I do this again?
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Robomaniac
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:03 am
- Location: Pottstown, PA
- Contact:
from my point of view the problem is not having no cvs but its lack of information.
example: niko said somewhere that he is going to change the material system. what changes does he want to make ? where can i find that information ? did he search the forums for what the users want so that he will include most of the stuff they requested ?
another problem is that you never know if any fixes you post to the forum will be included in future releases (i cant remember a post where niko states that a certain fix will be included at least not in the last few weeks). and theres no central point where you can look for fixes and patches they are scatterd troughout the different boards on this forum. so you never know if someone else already fixed the bug so you could just download instead of doing it again.
there needs to be someone who tests them and then says they are ok. at the moment only niko could do it because no one else has the possibility to put it into the release version. it could be done even without losing control by appointing someone as a "patchhandler" who tests them and if they are working, posts them into a board only he and niko has the right to post into. and niko can take those and include them in future releases because he knows they were tested and work.
then theres the stuff with the .net port. sure niko can do what he wants but why do a .net port when you know that there still are lots of problems in the existing code ?. wouldnt it be better to fix those things before doing a new port which you need to maintain, too ?
i really can understand that niko wants to keep control until v1.0. i really do its his baby (so to say). but it looks like there are some things that dont have high priority to him like the linux stuff (even the keyboard handling doesnt work right in the release version (editbox broken)) and the gui stuff (missing a gotfocus event iirc and some other things (see http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2667 for more)).
why not look for maintainers at least for those parts that are not of high priority or interest ?
then theres the irc channel and niko is never to be seen there (at least in the last few weeks when i was there). it would be a perfect way to communicate to the users. it musn't be to help newbies or even advanced programmers but it should be used to communicate the things i wrote about above.
i know that this means spending some time on things not directly related to programming. but niko, you created this thing so other people can /should use it. therefore i think it should be in your own interest to make it possible for them to use it in the best possible way. which imo means communication, too.
i still think niko did a very good job with this but maybe it has become too big to handle it alone and its time to think about letting other people in.
p.s: if you think im all wrong just ignore me.
example: niko said somewhere that he is going to change the material system. what changes does he want to make ? where can i find that information ? did he search the forums for what the users want so that he will include most of the stuff they requested ?
another problem is that you never know if any fixes you post to the forum will be included in future releases (i cant remember a post where niko states that a certain fix will be included at least not in the last few weeks). and theres no central point where you can look for fixes and patches they are scatterd troughout the different boards on this forum. so you never know if someone else already fixed the bug so you could just download instead of doing it again.
there needs to be someone who tests them and then says they are ok. at the moment only niko could do it because no one else has the possibility to put it into the release version. it could be done even without losing control by appointing someone as a "patchhandler" who tests them and if they are working, posts them into a board only he and niko has the right to post into. and niko can take those and include them in future releases because he knows they were tested and work.
then theres the stuff with the .net port. sure niko can do what he wants but why do a .net port when you know that there still are lots of problems in the existing code ?. wouldnt it be better to fix those things before doing a new port which you need to maintain, too ?
i really can understand that niko wants to keep control until v1.0. i really do its his baby (so to say). but it looks like there are some things that dont have high priority to him like the linux stuff (even the keyboard handling doesnt work right in the release version (editbox broken)) and the gui stuff (missing a gotfocus event iirc and some other things (see http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2667 for more)).
why not look for maintainers at least for those parts that are not of high priority or interest ?
then theres the irc channel and niko is never to be seen there (at least in the last few weeks when i was there). it would be a perfect way to communicate to the users. it musn't be to help newbies or even advanced programmers but it should be used to communicate the things i wrote about above.
i know that this means spending some time on things not directly related to programming. but niko, you created this thing so other people can /should use it. therefore i think it should be in your own interest to make it possible for them to use it in the best possible way. which imo means communication, too.
i still think niko did a very good job with this but maybe it has become too big to handle it alone and its time to think about letting other people in.
p.s: if you think im all wrong just ignore me.
I doubt this is what is meant, but from reading the above posts I get the impression that people feel that because it is in the open domain that we are all owed this and owed that. I dunno about you guys but I program for the fun of it and I think that Niko does too. It would be nice to have more of a say in development but it's not ours to dictate what should and shouldn't be done.
If Niko wants to go and work on a .Net port it is probably because he wants to work with C# more ( which I am pretty sure he does from his blog ) and not necessarily to satisfy all of us.
I think trying to put anyone under pressure to do something when really they are doing a community a favour by releasing the code to us is pretty wrong IMO.
Just my thoughts, flame me all you want
If Niko wants to go and work on a .Net port it is probably because he wants to work with C# more ( which I am pretty sure he does from his blog ) and not necessarily to satisfy all of us.
I think trying to put anyone under pressure to do something when really they are doing a community a favour by releasing the code to us is pretty wrong IMO.
Just my thoughts, flame me all you want
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Guest
I know I am about to be critical, so I want to start by saying I'm VERY thankful for what Niko has done.
Also, not to be harsh, but the development of the engine is unnecessarily slow. I would be happy to make some sizable contributions to Irrlicht (I'm already going to do it for a custom version of it). I'm sure a lot of other people would too. One of the best things about most opensource projects is how fast they develop, and this project does not take advantage of that.
I agree with that, my project depends on this engine, I need a better material system for my project. If I knew details about this system, when it will be available etc. I'd make an informed decision about whether or not to implement it myself or wait for Niko to. However I don't have any information. Therefore in August I'll be doing it myself. And if let's say Niko releases a similar material system in 0.7 a week later or something that'll be a silly waste of effort.mm765 wrote:example: niko said somewhere that he is going to change the material system. what changes does he want to make ? where can i find that information ? did he search the forums for what the users want so that he will include most of the stuff they requested ?
Also, not to be harsh, but the development of the engine is unnecessarily slow. I would be happy to make some sizable contributions to Irrlicht (I'm already going to do it for a custom version of it). I'm sure a lot of other people would too. One of the best things about most opensource projects is how fast they develop, and this project does not take advantage of that.
Well, you can access the material directly rather than fiddling around with Niko's shortcuts to it, use getMaterial() to get the nodes material and make a system from there. You don't have to either hack the engine or even use Niko's new system. I'm not planning to, I like to have my own definitions. It is useful in some ways but it wouldn't be a bad idea to make your own material sub system reguardless of any new system put in place.
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Guest
mm765:
That is exactly what we need if Niko does not open up the CVS. We need INFORMATION! We need another forum (not a seperate phpbb, but another seperate place to post) called Patches to be Verified and Verified Patches. Only the mods of that section are allowed to post those patches. User can reply in the patches to be verified forum to test it and give good information so it can become a verified patch. We need someone to RID the FAQ/Knowledge/Everything else that adds on to Irrlicht and organize it into readible, reliable, and clean topics. This is the only way we will ever let Irrlicht grow. We need a developer section so people know what people are developing. Right now about 6 people are developing Mac ports. We need a topic in Developers for Mac Ports so everyone can communicate and discuss this accordingly to actually get work done! We need to be able to see exactly what Niko is working on, what the community is working on, and what has been done by Niko and the community. This is the way Irrlicht will succeed. Stop sitting around waiting for this to slowly die AND DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!
Thank you
That is exactly what we need if Niko does not open up the CVS. We need INFORMATION! We need another forum (not a seperate phpbb, but another seperate place to post) called Patches to be Verified and Verified Patches. Only the mods of that section are allowed to post those patches. User can reply in the patches to be verified forum to test it and give good information so it can become a verified patch. We need someone to RID the FAQ/Knowledge/Everything else that adds on to Irrlicht and organize it into readible, reliable, and clean topics. This is the only way we will ever let Irrlicht grow. We need a developer section so people know what people are developing. Right now about 6 people are developing Mac ports. We need a topic in Developers for Mac Ports so everyone can communicate and discuss this accordingly to actually get work done! We need to be able to see exactly what Niko is working on, what the community is working on, and what has been done by Niko and the community. This is the way Irrlicht will succeed. Stop sitting around waiting for this to slowly die AND DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!
Thank you