Which 3D modelers do you prefer and why?

codechief · Post by **codechief** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:51 pm

This may seem to be simple enough to most of you, but its still a confusing topic for me at present, so please answer these newbie questions:

What modeler (free or otherwise) do you use to build your 3D models with Irrlicht and why?
Which format to you use to save your models in (.X or 3ds etc) and why?

Thanks for all your answers,

cc

PS- please also tell me why. Thanks.

thesmileman · Post by **thesmileman** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:03 pm

I really Enjoy 3D Studio Max 5 and 6. While very expensive I think there is an educational version which is not too high. There are tons of tutorials out there for it and it is very easy to get the hang of go to http://www.3dbuzz.com for some great FREE video tutorials on Max and other programs. My top choice.

I also enjoy Cinema 4D it is very easy to use VERY VERY fast and they have a GREAT program called BodyPaint 3d for painting on models. Definitaly a good choice. Some might say that I am wrong but I think it is great. Also several of the larger film companies use it for the first or second models and animations. Also works on a mac or pc!

Maya is a great program probibly a little more advanced that 3DS Max but unless you are a true modiling god you should be able to do most things in Max that you can do in Maya and vice versa. Maya has Very high system requirements.

SoftImage XSI a great program but works considerably different from Max, Maya, and Cinema 4D. I used it for about a month this year and really enjoyed it. I don't know as much its benifits other than it has a REALLY great rendering system built in. For programs like max a lot of people have problems with the built in renderers quality and use external renderers like Brazil.

I have heard very good things about blender and it is free. But I don't know much else about it.

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:37 pm

I'd say Maya is the most powerful, 3D Studio MAX the easiest to use whilst still being powerful, Blender just confused me ( I didn't give it much of a chance ) and MilkShape is the best value for money. Milkshape isn't terribly good for anything more than basic models ( IMO ) due to the poly limit and lack of features. MilkShape is definatly the best to learn on however as the lack of features become an advantage in that it doesn't confuse the user too much. Be prepared that some day you will probably need to move on from Milkshape to something like Maya or 3DSM tho.

schick · Post by **schick** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:41 pm

You should have a look at the first 2 threats.

http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... um.php?f=5

arras · Post by **arras** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:33 pm

here is combination of modeling apps I use. They are free or low cost:

Wings3D -free, exelent modeler, have limited UV maping and lacks animation abbility:
http://www.wings.com

LithUnwrap1.3 -free, for UVmaping
-you have to search web, its available for download at several places. If ever you cant get it, I can upload it on my page...

CharacterFX -low cost exelent animation app. Suport weighted vertices:
http://www.insanesoftware.de

If you are amateur modeler and dont want to spent loot of money on apps like Maya or Max, try it.

Of course there is always Milkshape3D

just some examples I did using those programs:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictures/Wscreen.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictures/Capitan1.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictures/woman02.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictu ... rcher2.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictu ... rcher9.jpg
that last one is available for free at my page..

Good luck with modeling

Electron · Post by **Electron** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:55 pm

I use anim8or ( http://www.anim8or.com) because its free. I like the interface, but export capabilities suck

Domarius · Post by **Domarius** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:41 am

That's a cool workflow arras! I love Wings3D and was looking for some additional progs to supplement it - UV mapping, and animation. I will definetley check out the ones you mentioned.

But I was thinking I would get MilkShape3D to do both those other things (UV mapping and animation). How do you think that would go? Have you used it before?

arras · Post by **arras** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:29 am

Yes I know Milkshape and I was using it a lot before I found Wings. Milkshape is good all round modeler. If you have Milkshape, you dont need nothing more to make low poly models.
However while Milkshape is good in modeling / UV maping / animating ..its not exelent in none of them. In what it exel is wide range of export formats.

As modeler Wings is much better, more comfortable and quicklier. Also you are not restricted to low poly modeling.

As UW maper LithUnwrap is better ...have more options and easier editing environment

And finaly CharacterFX is better for animating since it suport weighted wertices already and have better editing posibilities. (Bye the way CHaracterFX export to Milkshape format among others)

That doesnt mean that Milkshape is useles ...you have everything in one package and if you dont plan to model some wery complicated models its sufficient. Its good especialy for begginers.

As for Wings3D, you can upgrade it little bit by downloading YafRay at http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname/ ...its raytracing renderer. Wings suport it as plugin.

R00mpel · Post by **R00mpel** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:57 pm

I like Anim8or, i also tried using Blender, and i have to use Milkshape (though i don't like it very much) to animate my models...

codechief · Post by **codechief** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:48 pm

Thanks to all that replied, especially for going into relevant details.
I shall be watching this thread regularly so your replies would still benefit me.

Thanks again,

cc

elhim · Post by **elhim** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:18 pm

any of you guys use blender?

Domarius · Post by **Domarius** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:19 am

Thanks arras, I have been looking for exactly that kind of info for ages!!! I have always been wondering if I should buy MilkShape to go with Wings3D - now I think I will just go for Lithunwrap and Character FX!

And thanks for the link to YafRay.

BTW - I have tried to get Lithunwrap before, but it seems they have moved on and made "Ultimate Unwrap", and you have to purchase it. Is this what you use, or can you show me where you got the free Lithunwrap?

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:53 am

I worked with Max, a very little bit of maya.

One of my crazy dreams is have a rich uncle purchase max fo rme..

I prefer Max to Maya. But yet so I am not meaning Max is better. Both would rock to have them.

My workflow is :

Modelling : Wings3d or Metasequoia.

Uv mapping :Basicly Ultimate Unwrap. Though I could also do basic mapping with Wings3d or metasequoia (they don't have complete set of uvmap features)

Animation : (Milkshape does not support weighted vertices.I bought it, I still use it for smooth groups, if I really need them, though now can also do em with Wings...) Character Fx. Now, if that direct x *.x file export ends comming, I'll be able to use Blender...The pity is Blender, yet having an slightly better bone system than Character Fx, yet is not as good as Character Studio.Still means animating without joint pinning. There's a trick, but means breaking the skeleton, and I am totally suspecting it wont export well to an x engine... I have asked for the x export, as well as for the joint pinning. And the export at least, seems is really bringing problems to his author, but one day or another he'll finally be successful...I hope... It's python code what they do...

Texturing: 3d painting. I made long ago my more expensive purchase ever in software :deep paint3d 2.0. I just love it.
Now, there's a free tool for this, but only for non comercial. Is no so powerful as dp3d, but is getting near. Is just I like to be free to do comercial work.
Is called Tatoo. I put the link in off topic some time ago.

Also, always a 3d painting for games, needs a bit or a lot of final 2d retouching over the texture(for objects often is directly 2d): For that, Gimp for windows does the job for me. A bit quite unstable, though. There a re loads of other 2d tools, but not so complete. Yet not happy with the ui, though. Again, PaintShoPro is not very expensive and rocks. But I'd buy first Ultimate Unwrap + Character Fx (35+15$) if I hadn't em yet, previous to nothing.

U could do stuff totally free if Blender ends up having that full bones, animation and weights x exporter. But I am waiting I think since november...dunno if the author is at it...(anyway, he's not forced to, does it for free

) Other thing is: I learnt Blender, got the grips of it. But I can almost ensure 90% ppl will reject it. I say looking at statistics of every post I see about it. Only a very few stayed with it. I rejected it long ago.Only becoming a lot more experienced in 3d game me the background to be able to learn it...that, and patience, and reading the manuals. Indeed, if really have to last things, can learn it, (and much free time) .The 3d experience is only a very important helper.

With the exporter, and being very skilled in each software, you could do all with wings3d, metasequoia, Blender, Gimp. (no need to use all.Blender does practically all. I would not agree is the best on each area. That is not true even with expensive packages... )

I specially like the fact Blender has bones, weights, weight painting, vertex color painting, texture painting (WAAY limited, of course, is already too good it includes a basic stroke system) , complex materials, powerful modelling (yet imho Wings is quite quicker) , advanced keyframe/animation system, render getting nicer (not important for games...but will be once it supports lightmaps generation, that can't be done by Milkshape, nor Ultimate (though Ultimate supports a second uv channel, and a slot for lightmap, just does not generate the lighting and tga))

Conclussion: Blender will be the free and powerful tool of anyone with loads of patience. Once it gets the direct x exporter. A doom3 md5 export has been done by a user, already, based on blender to cal3d exporter. This means actually one for blender to x with weights must be possible. (actually demonstrated already on blender2cal3d ) As both are weights, bones and animation.

...but for now, all I can say best pack (and said also by a pair of two other artists that have been also moving a lot in amateur field) is Wings3d (or Metasequoia, just Meta does not allow comercial ethically) + Ultimate Unwrap (some ppl are starting to uv map with the somewaht yet limited uvmapping in Wings3d..hmm..) + Character Fx.

Only big lowdown in that is last one, animation. No joint pinning.Your character feet will slide.You will fight a lot to reloacte them. You will animate slower as no real IK there... But you will get the job more or less done.
This problems are also in Milkshape, plus the other Milkshape weakness (not trashing it, is very good for other stuff. )

The mid cost tools are not any better; imho is WAY much more useful that 50$ pack than the 200$ Gamespace, or even Truespace+gamepak...unless TS bones&weights have really improved, but I am reading in the fourms they hhave not...funnily, I found TS4 bones to be much worse than Blender's...

Hash Animation Master (299$ , www.hash.com) ROCKS in animation. But you have to purchase apart the AMtex plugin to export to x. Is a good exporter, though. Pitty is: Hash only supports splines. Is a VERY different way of modelling, and most people don't get it. Specially unpractical for real time as for now is all based on polygons. Yet so, the great Wings3d has an exporter for Hash told to be working ok. Yet so, the conversion to so different systems is full of problems. I knew one guy that rocked modelling inside hash using "peak" (cornered, just no curves) models, modelling dot by dot. And then, he exported that with AMtex. And result was very good. Again, special abilities needed. Not everyone will be able to do those kickass tricks.
Still its bones an animation are a dream. And hi res rendering, for which is done, is great.

In easiness/quality/power/compatibility I see no better tool than Max. Just keeps expensive

If Blender ends up having that animation weighted x exporter...be sure I'll be really happy.

(not only for irrlitch, gamestudio, darkbasic pro, tv3d, and many other engines...Ultimate Unwrap imports x files with weights and animation and from there, I can export to lots. And tweak it a lot.)

But only my 2 weird cents of euro.

vermeer · Post by **vermeer** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:57 am

oh, an a tut of Wings AutoUv feature...is cool...but...I need much more control over my UVs. With Ultimate Unwrap I have just as much control as with Max edit uvw, sometimes even more.

yet so, I know ay lot of users will have models uv mapped for free with Wings, but wings is now complex, is WAY easier to learn than Blender, but still all need a learning. I learnt without ever touching a manual, like I did with all my packages except : Deep Paint3d, and of course, Blender.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jmandmc/uvmap/uvmap.html

arras · Post by **arras** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:05 pm

I was uploading LithUnwrap 1.3 to my webpage. You can download it from Download section.

Myself I was getting it from site which doesn't exist anymore.