irrlicht takes the whole OS down with it??

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:41 pm

Hi.
I'm having a strange problem. Every now and then when i compile or run my game made in irrlicht, the whole OS (windows XP) locks.

I've been trying to find the problem and have several times been convinced that I found it. But all has proven to be wrong.

I use Visual Studio 2005.

First i thought it always appeared under compilation while Embedding manifest. But it could also crash when i executed the game.exe file.
- i thought it was either my OS or VS that needs a reinstall. But i tried to run the project on my lap top and i appeared there as well.
I switched to an old visual 2003 version, and after converting some code, I got the same problem.

That must narrow it down to something in my code, or irrlicht.

I then looked at some of my pointer operations and char pointer converts and stuff, as it seemed that the problem always appeared after debugging stuff or after getting some pointer error.

But it now seem to appear even though the program has not crashed from pointer operations.

When it crashes I cannot access anything in the OS. Not even the taskmanager.

Have anyone experienced this?

hybrid · Post by **hybrid** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:51 pm

this is a common problem with driver bugs. Try to find a different gfx card driver for your system.

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:42 pm

I have tried some other nvidia drivers for my GT 6600 and i didn't work.

Do you know which part of the code causes the error?

I cannot provoke any freezes in the irrlicht Examples!
I have for example been really been rough with the hello world example!
But it will not crash with any of the drivers!

Can it be a Gui thing?

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:10 am

Ok found out you were right. It is only when i run the game in hardware accelerated mode!

Not if i use the software driver!

But it is next to impossible to develop and test the game, in software mode, so if anyone know which Nvidia / forceware driver have solved their problem i like to know.

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:22 pm

How can anyone use this engine for their games???

I'm asking this because, it riddles me why anyone can use this engine to make games in, but not me!

What makes my two completely different computer so special, that i cannot run my game i hardware accelerated mode????????

It seems that all you people dosen't have the problem, of using the engine in hardware accelerated mode! Either DX8 or DX9!

I have tried lots of different drivers for my Geforce card.

Every time and with every driver i have tried (some even three years old) the engine locks up and crashes the whole OS.

So you can say it's just my Graphic card, motherboard, whatever..
Buy on my laptop, which dosen't share a single component with the other computer, the same problem exist!

So Why dosen't your engine crash?

Is it Unix that makes the difference?
Are anyone using windows XP anyway?

Another thing is that Niko wrote in a blog:

And it's not the fault of the game, not the fault of Irrlicht, and in most cases not the fault of your hardware. The reason for this is usually a badly written video driver

I don't buy this at the moment. Not with two gfx cards doing the same thing, on 2 computers.
If the driver was the problem, i should have serious problems with alot of games, but i don't have.

I must be a fault in the engine??

belfegor · Post by **belfegor** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:31 pm

uhhh... sorry

linkoraclehero · Post by **linkoraclehero** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:45 pm

LET'S ALL REMAIN CALM, DROP YOUR WEAPONS AND PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE FLOOR!

Could be VC++ (I seriously hate VS). Could be your DX libs. Ever try compiling a non-irrlicht DX application? Irrlicht is seriously 100% a framework for DX, so Irrlicht most likely is not the problem.

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:52 pm

I have compiled lots of DX stuff.

Both managed and unmanaged direct x.
A year I made a game using the Ogre 3D engine. It also uses Directx.

I think I use the august 2006 sdk right now.
Could it be this?

The last factor left is the Visual Studio!
I could try to use another compiler!!!

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:54 pm

By the way i have also converter my game so it could compile on VS 2003.

Same result.

CuteAlien · Post by **CuteAlien** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:45 am

Start debugging. Add logmessages, so you can see where it crashes. Start outcommenting parts of your game until it does no longer crash. Finding the reason for crashes is simply part of the job of a programmer. And no one can help you with such a general problem without further information. Once you are able to reduce the problem to a handful of lines which you can post here, we might be able to help you.

Also it might be useful to try if other software which is using Irrlicht does run on your computer (<ad> there's for example this nice game demo if you follow the first link in my sig... </ad> ).

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:44 am

Yes debugging. Good old debugging. I have spent quite some time debugging. Disabled everything in turn trying to narrow it down.

But there simply was not consistency with what code i removed.

The program itself does not crash. It's is something beneath.

And i actually think i just now found the source of the error!

I'm not 100% sure, but if im right it has something to do with some windows libraries.

I tried to make my game only output a console window like all the examples.
Removing #include <windows.h> and sat the linker to drop outputting a win 32 window.

It seems to work. If so it could be some conflich in the windows messaging system or some other weird combination of many factors!

iamtehpwn · Post by **iamtehpwn** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:21 pm

I had a similar problem with Irrlicht that you describe. The Solution? Using an older Version. Irrlicht 1.3, with my experience of people trying to use it around me, have had the same results. So, We all just had to go back to using an older version of irrlicht.

Jolly Joker · Post by **Jolly Joker** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:37 pm

The solution is to reinstall Windows or install a fresh copy of Windows

I had a similar error with DirectX driver, the system hangs and all that I can do is hit Reset button. The problem started to happen since I upgrade my VGA card from FX5200 to 7300GT. But when I reinstall Windows, the problem is gone

Ondninja · Post by **Ondninja** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:11 pm

Ahh thanks for the advice!
So there were after all people out there with the problem

I thought it were gone. I Nearly made it through the whole day without the error!
But then suddenly it startet again.
I think it often (not every time) is connected with an out of index array operation or similar. Combined with not running in software mode.

I will first try the 1.3
thanks.

But first i have to reset my computer hehe. Cannot start any new processes

mhack · Post by **mhack** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:19 am

I have been working with Irrlicht for a few months now and have run into a few very tricky bugs (not in the Irrlicht code, but my own or other sw components). The thing that saved me, more than once, was building and running it on both Windows and GNU/Linux. The reason is that there is this INVALUABLE free tool on GNU/Linux that can find some of the nastiest and trickiest bugs. Of course, I'm referring to Valgrind, the hallway to Programmer's Valhalla.

It doesn't find all bugs, but the memcheck tool has found bugs in my code that I would not likely have ever found on my own. And it found them immediately.