Blender sculpting - Linux or Win xp?

Post your questions, suggestions and experiences regarding to Image manipulation, 3d modeling and level editing for the Irrlicht engine here.
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omaremad
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Blender sculpting - Linux or Win xp?

Post by omaremad »

I am currently on windows vista and i am getting trouble with memory management during sculpting details on my head model. I need very high mesh resoultions during the sculpting to add fine details like hair but as soon as blender eats up 50% of my physical memory it seems that vista dumps
all of blender into the virtual memory causing it run extremely slowly while my physical memory stays empty.

Should i switch to linux? does it provide better memory mangement in these situations or should i rollback to xp. its not really cost effcient to upgrade my old computer with more ram (ill just buy a new one when this one dies).

For people experienced in sculpting tools (vermeer please reply :wink: ) is editing 1.5 - 2 milion polygons fine on a 1gb ram?

When im finished with this i hope to post this generic male model(whole body) for free here(both high +low poly versions and normal maps).

Image
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

vermeer replying ;)

I'd stay with XP. maybe make a try to see how it goes in linux, if you configure it well. But xp eats way less memory. I don't talk about efficiency, maybe Vista has improves on that, but my experience is you need a lot more memory. And xp works quite well, so...I'd have it clear.

There are optimized versions, more eficient than others, blender builds, I mean.I doubt you notice a lot of difference, though.
For people experienced in sculpting tools (vermeer please reply Wink ) is editing 1.5 - 2 milion polygons fine on a 1gb ram?
with 1 GB of ram, Vista already is eating that or almost all that ram, just "to put the logo".Is thought for way larger quantities of RAM, if you ask me.

You say your pc is near to die. That means, old hardware. Old moboard, slow buses, slow memory, surely underpowered card, low cpu, etc, etc.

A friggin' crazy thing to edit a 1,5 million polies with that. To be true: a royal merit for blender, if it could allow you something, with that count, in that machine, and with Vista behind all!!!! :o

I'd say, for editing a (not necesarily 1,5million, though is usually a good count for game wel detailed models in AAA games) hi res version of a character model, I'd go fo rthe 2 gigs and xp, and still, u need clever techniques. The machines used for this things are way way more powerful and modern.That's what many ppl don't know when they run to buy zbrush or mudbox.

Blender has traditionally make a good deal with loads of polies. I'd say, Silo is probably better in this, but is a fast very impression, so don't count on it.

The key advice:

a tirck It's used since ye old Amorphium 1, which I had and have: You can mask areas, and invert masks, etc, in many of these softwares, so that you just subdivide areas that you painted, as you there you will need loads of detail...while others can stay at even mid polygon count. This kills amazingly the overkill that is modelling such a brute mesh. halving or way more, the polygon count.

ALso, there are softwares that allow making only calculations in the area being worked on,and when zoom aout, global calculus is done, or put in wireframe what is not area of interest, etc.

Last time I checked in blender's stuff, it was allready achived, that feature. Dunno if was a build, or if was a release. But very recent, anyway. Also you have retopo blender tool, allowing to paint over a low res mesh over the hi res mesh, similar to topology brush of Silo, the first one to grab more fame in this technique.

I used to model " hi res " dunno if back in 1997 , of several thousands of tris, with Amorphium 1, witha pentium of 32 mb de ram, and later 64, dunno if with win95 or 98 SE. go guess. It was jumpy but could do...
I mean: depends a lot on how much the software eats..

Also...You'r not making a model for a AAA: think very well if you need all that friggin quantity of tris everywhere...probably not...
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

btw

http://www.blender.org/development/rele ... 43/retopo/

That above is for painting over it a low res mesh, must be royal fun and fast to get the low res thingie like that. yeah, I have modeled in hi, but havent dealt YET, with normal maps nitty gritty stuff, conversions...must be easy, but just havent.Other than reading docs and features specs.The key of the thing is knowing to model in hi, anyway.

from blender site, tips when using sculpt:

" * Turn off Mesh modifiers before doing any sculpting. While it is possible to sculpt with modifiers on, it makes redraw much slower.
* When sculpting on very dense meshes, try turning on Partial Redraw in the Sculpt menu. This option uses more optimization when drawing the mesh, however it does not work on all graphics cards.
* Sculpt Mode can use tablet pressure data if you have a tablet."

also, ensure you have done the remove doubles step!

you can indeed use retopo to reduce manually large areas where you don't want detail.Or other manual methods.

Here's an interesting, open source, and portable tool, related with all this.

http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/
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omaremad
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Post by omaremad »

" * Turn off Mesh modifiers before doing any sculpting. While it is possible to sculpt with modifiers on, it makes redraw much slower.
* When sculpting on very dense meshes, try turning on Partial Redraw in the Sculpt menu. This option uses more optimization when drawing the mesh, however it does not work on all graphics cards.
* Sculpt Mode can use tablet pressure data if you have a tablet."
Partial redraw is very useful thanks, but im still bottlenecked by swapped memory.

For normal maps i moved to xNormals its free and has a nice viewer, the quality of its raytracer is reallly good and i get 0 artifacts. You should try it.
The key of the thing is knowing to model in hi, anyway.
some (pro) artists like to model in high then make a low polyone, but because im not very good at keeping clean meshes i just model in low and then subdivide/sculpt to make high. UVing is easier that way too.


I tried breaking down meshes into smaller parts but the subsurf ruins the edges (multi res subsurf ignores creases set in edit mode).

it seems there must be a better way to add more detail to my head than to upscale to 2 million polygons because this whole chracter is 2 million polygons and thats a high resoultion mesh created by top artists:

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens ... ation1.jpg


I spoke to some irrlichters on irc and it seems linux wont swap the whole application into virtual memory but only the small chunk that exceeds physical memory limitaions. I guess if linux treats the hard disk and ram as one continious space ill be fine even with 1gb memory (if i dont go into too much swap space).
"Irrlicht is obese"

If you want modern rendering techniques learn how to make them or go to the engine next door =p
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

I guess it'd swap anyway as it's a huge load.

you've too fast subdividing, maybe. if you work low -->hi, maybe is better to sudivide per areas, instead of global ones. Is many times les poly count.
Also, Vista is already taking 1GB of ram! The system itself. You're runing a 1,5 million tirs model with almost no ram. that's why it is swapping, and as a 1,5 million tris model will hoagh any pc of that age and with surely more than standard specs.If u gotta stick to that hardware, do th etricks, do'n't force subdiv in all the (and bake the modifiers!) surface as i really doubt you need detail in all. And of course, go back to XP, Vista is not convincing for now.
Or use a Linux. I just never used Blender in Linux , so can't speak about comparisons.

Also, there was some rumor about opengl going worse in vista...it could also be it...
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vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

btw, you put me a link from unreal technology site...don't expect any of those buddies be suing a Pc like mine or yours... ;)
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FlyingIsFun1217
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Post by FlyingIsFun1217 »

I've heard that linux is faster in certain situations.
It'll also save the world. No joke.

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zany_001
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Post by zany_001 »

for subsurf, put the render levels at what you really want, and put the normal levels at 1 or 2, no more than that.

Also, when you say that Linux treats hard drive and RAM as one thing, the hard drive is waaaaaaaaaaaay slower than RAM, unless you have one of those new hard drives made out of solid state, which basically means RAM that doesnt lose everything at shutdown. VEEEEEERY fast. :) dont use Vista.Linux or XP i would say wouldnt really matter, ill test it out for you if you want

.The other thing is make good use of blenders layers system, so put lights on one layer, head on another etc..

For hair im assuming your using particles?
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Post by vermeer »

for subsurf, put the render levels at what you really want, and put the normal levels at 1 or 2, no more than that.
Surely you know, but he is not making it for high res rendering movie, just to sculpt a high res mesh and export it. To produce the normal maps with an external tool.

Yep, Linux should be very fast. I know that in WindowsXP , certainly, is not slow. I can only imagine the pain in Vista...
For hair im assuming your using particles?
particles? blender particles? he wouldnt be able to export that, that I know...He's not making a movie... I guess one can do real time hair in game engines, but artist tends to loose the control there... And woul certainly be a cpu hoagh... But sio2 made something, some fur for irrlicht.
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omaremad
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Post by omaremad »

Posting from linux :D

Im running the wubi version of ubuntu and its pretty fast even with the virtual file system, (normal ubuntu just wouldnt boot grub error 18 ). I ll do some heavy testing now.

@ zany_001:

Me and vermeer were discussing didgital sculpting and normal baking, its a really cool workflow that allows us to make low poly models look like high poly ones (sculpting is in some areas also better than poly/nurb modelling) and can be used easily in games.
"Irrlicht is obese"

If you want modern rendering techniques learn how to make them or go to the engine next door =p
zany_001
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Post by zany_001 »

Me and vermeer were discussing didgital sculpting and normal baking, its a really cool workflow that allows us to make low poly models look like high poly ones (sculpting is in some areas also better than poly/nurb modelling) and can be used easily in games.
yah, i know what you mean.

Some ppl use particles in games so i thought you might. Cant you export the particles and normal map them to a model?
<a link="www.realityfactory.ca/info>RF</a>

the above shows my awesome programming skills:)
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