Lost in a world with 3D graphics.

cm3rt · Post by **cm3rt** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:45 pm

Okay so I am known as one who can program my way out of anything... But where I am completely lost is with anything to do with 3D graphics.

I am going to be making a MMORPG soon and I just dont know at all how to animate or script for 3d graphics, which means I have no chance at all making a game without help.

I need to know if there are any godlike tutorials to teach me how to script graphics and impliment then in game.

For example: I am going to have a player created character lifting weights.

I don't know how to have a player create a character and make it into a mesh or whatever let alone save/animate him, make him lay down on a bench press and bend his arms, make the weights go into his arms, pump it up and down, then make him stand back up to where he was before.

Someone direct me to some fine tutorials and to which program I need to use to create some ill characters that are able to be scripted and animated through irrlicht!

Thanks.

MasterGod · Post by **MasterGod** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:30 pm

How exactly are you going to make a MMORPG if you declare you can't, no really, HOW THE HELL.. (to myself: shut up! hold yourself!!)

Well, you want a MMORPG? Go buy World of Warcraft, I'm sure you'll like it.

P.S
Want a real answer? really? I ain't kidding, search for the keywords: rogerborg AND mmorpg.

cm3rt · Post by **cm3rt** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:47 pm

I've constructed and have helped to make some very successful non graphical text based MMORPG's making thousands a month like www.urban-riot.com, making everything I said credible.

Hope you feel foolish.

Come on now, if you knew I would have had this experience I doubt you would have had that kind of answer... Appreciate your "help".

MasterGod · Post by **MasterGod** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:07 pm

lol you're funny. Sorry but I can't help you.

P.S
That link doesn't work.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:10 pm

Mad reeespect for the skeelz. You wants to get yo strap on wid some phat modellin' bling like 3D Studio, Blender or Milkshape, then you little mesh homies be throwing wicked shapes in no time, innit. In yo game, playa, you just be saying "Mesh homie! Throw down wid da bench press, dawg," then you give dem da magic numba fo' tha bench press boogaloo, and dey be getting jiggy wid it reeeal smooth.

Booyashaka!

JP · Post by JP » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:39 pm

Basically you're in for a rough ride, we're not mocking you in any way, we're being serious. MMORPGs have the highest failure rate around here as they're so damned massive and people don't realise just how long they'll take and how much effort is required.

Ok so you've got some experience doing non-graphical ones, but if you don't know anything about 3D graphics then you're a bit stuck... that was Mastergod's point. You said you can't do 3D graphics so how do you expect to start on a graphical MMORPG so soon?

You need to just set aside a fair amount of time to learn how 3D graphics work, how to program with them and how to create player models.

It would be quite an impressive feat to allow your players to build up their own meshes, especially if the players aren't modellers themselves so the best thing you can do is have a few character base models and then make a load of customisable parts for them like armour and different clothing etc.

As rogerborg pointed out you may want to look into modelling programs such as blender (free) and milkshape (very cheap and easy to use). if you don't know how to make 3D models then you'll have to set aside yet more time to learn that or find someone willing to model for you, either for free or for payment.

As you can see there's a helluva lot of work so you may be better off getting a team of people together!

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:13 am

Yeah, as JP said, and rogerborg, MMORPGs are ridiculous. I don't think people actually know how much you actually have to write before you even make the game!

First you have to write the backstory of your world: why does the grass grow, why are there rocks, what's in the air. This is known as the game bible and ranges from 70 pages, for small games, to 700 pages for big games.

Then you have to write the motivation for your characters: why are they brutish, do they have respect for life, how did they grow up. You have to do this for every character strain, and for even one it can be about 20-50 pages. Now multiply that number by 10 races/strains.

Oh yeah, and what is your gameplay even going to be like. I am pretty sure you are going to have to write a design document, which just like the bible, can be 70-700 pages and has to tell every little trival detail about your game.

Did I forget to tell you that after you write the documentation for the game, you actually have to make the game. Ah, that sucks. Now you have to make concept sketches, that your just going to use and throw away, for all you characters, then make landscape sketches, and mood sketches.

But then you have the fun part of modeling all of these characters, and their armor pieces, for customization, in a program like Blender. Then you have to animate all the characters which can be 100-1000 frames worth of animation.

Once the easy part is out of the way, you move on to the easier part. You have to actually code the game. Well after writing thousands upon thousands of lines of actual code, then I think your done.

Oh wait, I kid, I kid, after you finish coding the game, you have to shell out loads of cash for some fast servers so that you can have a userbase! Then you will have to maintain those servers for your whole lifetime, if you want to keep your userbase.

But don't worry, you'll probably die before then.

MasterGod · Post by **MasterGod** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:35 am

You guys almost killed me

I think this thread should be sticky in the open discussion forum for an example for every new guy that wants to create a MMORPG and wont even search for this or other similar threads.

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:14 am

that was a little over top halifax, but it does make the point (even if it is a bit inflated) that you need a very clear design documentation MOST of the time. It is very dependent if this is really ment to be MMorpg or just an hobby orpg, which can be a bit like gekkeiju online which is never more than like 25 people online at a time but also doesnt have the same type of prereqs that a large mmo would have.

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:20 am

lostclimategames wrote:that was a little over top halifax, but it does make the point (even if it is a bit inflated) that you need a very clear design documentation MOST of the time. It is very dependent if this is really ment to be MMorpg or just an hobby orpg, which can be a bit like gekkeiju online which is never more than like 25 people online at a time but also doesnt have the same type of prereqs that a large mmo would have.

Seems I can't say anything without getting some slack these days. No actually it wasn't at all that much over the top. Why don't you try asking Epic Games how much documentation they have for Gears of War. They actually do develop their characters from lives that give them motivation, purpose, meaning, wants, and needs. They don't just pull crap. This is why games, with good documentation, can be translated in to other mediums so easily, such as movies, books, etc.

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:19 am

depends, some games (take 2moons for example) dont need a storyline behind everything in the game, only main interaction, if a bug is walking across the ground that you can kill, the only documentation you need for it, is the reason its in that type of area, (inlcluding area climate, strength etc.) granted if your looking to make something with a deep storyline (I prefer less story more technical stat editing systems) then yes characters need to be fleshed out, but not with 50-70 pages a piece.

not trying to give you slack, just pointing out that not every game need huge detail in every character.

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:45 am

Okay, true, I agree with you, not every game needs it. But to clear things up, I was referring to an MMORPG when I was talking to him. But yes, not all games need that much documentation.

SirSami · Post by **SirSami** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:23 am

Thanks for the "game making tutorial" halifax, it was fun

But cm3rd you should first try to make a lot of smaller game than MMORPG. If you have never made a 3D game, one of the best choise for first game would be some kind of 3D labyrinth or something like that. I've made four games and started over ten and there is still huge work in a little 2D game... I been worked with a car game for one year and it is not finished yet. And probably it is not going to be

So first try to make some simple object like sword and then think the world of warcraft and how many swords there are. After that think about the time it takes to make hundreds of different kind of those swords.

If you wish to make 3D MMORPG you need a team for that. There is just too much work for one person.

PS. Don't care about my english

If there is some bad misstakes notice me

Dorth · Post by **Dorth** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:35 am

I think somewhere, somehow, a discrepancy has been creating itself between what most used to consider mmo (UO, RO, Everquest, Eve, WoW, etc.) and the new mmo (the small ones), with *only* 30-250 users per servers, distributable, etc. And I do not think it's such a bad thing. While the mmos are mostly saturated, partly because of the long lifetime of those games, people have more and more private servers for mods and to play with friends. Often, they need to build their own tools and not all servers are legal. There's definitively a niche to be filed there, but it shouldn't be called mmorpg. Maybe morpg is more suited.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:17 am

Of course, but anyone who claims to be working on a "Massive" game should expect that their claim will be examined.

Anyone who has genuinely worked on a completed Massive game has earned respect. However, just claiming that you have? Meh.

Anyone claiming to be working on a Massive 3D game who is asking noob questions should, bluntly, expect to be mocked. You should know the answers to questions like "How do I make a model?" before claiming that you'll soon be working on a Massive game.

Anyone claiming to be working, or to have worked, on a Massive game which turns out to be a <1000 player MUD-a-like should also expect to be mocked for misunderstanding the common lexicon.

Either way, a statement that you are working on a Massive game is an extra-ordinary claim, which required extra-ordinary proof. A link to a "successful MMORPG" that leads to a non-existent domain doesn't meet that standard. For that matter, a link to an extant genuine MMORPG doesn't either; I can link to Wow and claim that I wrote it, but that doesn't make the claim true.