Dark Reign 3 - An RTS for the Future - Based on the Past...

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:43 pm

What I meant was that most people aren't going to look at a project that has just an idea. There are plenty of idea's out ther that have never got off the ground. It sort of denzises people from looking at a project. The more you have done and the better it looks means that more and more people will sit up and take an interest.

Good luck in finding a team though, there could well be more people like you who like the idea and want to help. Dark Reign already has an established fan base so you already have a group of people who will be interested.

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:14 pm

What I meant was that most people aren't going to look at a project that has just an idea.

I have more than an idea. I have work, I have code, I have more done than what you think.

There are plenty of idea's out ther that have never got off the ground.

I know that. But I have DEDICATION, PERSISTANCE and PASSION, something these projects may have lacked. You need someone with a passion for the game and a vision. I have both. I intend to use them. Look at PlaneShift. It's made by a core group of people using a MUCH harder engine yet they have their own server and a legion of fans. Their work has vision and dedication.

One project I'm working on for someone else has 1 person at it's core. He has a vision for a game and I'm proud to be working on it. Because of his persistence and skills, the project now has many other people working on it. THAT is dedication. His idea faded once, and now it's coming back even better and with more passion and dedication than before.

I could fall into the pressure of Guest and other nameless people but I'm not that weak, my persistance is infinite. I have an idea and IT WILL BE DONE. I don't care if I have to wait until 10GHz PCs become common and people have 10TB hard disk drives. My game WILL be done. It WILL prove all the doubters wrong.

Guest. I realise I spoke in haste in my last post directed at you. Sorry for that.

Guest, regarding your definition of Arrogance:
Is John Carmack arrogant? What about Peter Molynoux? Or Tim Sweeny? They speak big AND they deliver. They have passion, dedication and skill. I'm NOWHERE near their level in skill, I know that. I'm not angry at you. I feel sorry for you. Enjoy the life on the dark side? Enjoy belittleing other people? Enjoy making other people feel crap? If I have spoken sh*t and I come out with sh*t then I'll be the first to hold a gun to my head. That's a promise.

I may not have as much skill as other people, but I'm willing to see this through no matter what it takes. That's not arrogance. That's persistance. I love my work and I love the games that I play. I'm an entertainer in a unique way. I like to see people have fun playing games I've worked on. I like to amaze, stun and supprise people. I love the satisfaction of bringing entertainment into people's lives. While my social skills say otherwise, I am NOT arrogant. Everyone has their own opinions and ideas and I realise my limits and the limits of the hardware. I only take up what I know is possible.

PROVE to me you're as good what you make out to be. PROVE that this will fail. Until then I'll enjoy learning and having fun and talking to people like Assi and Tyn. People WHO I KNOW have skill.

PS. Does the fact that I believe in my skills and try to acomplish seemingly impossible things make me arrogant? If people didn't have confidence in their skills and ideas, stuff would NEVER get done. You have to have some arrogance. Otherwise you WILL fall to other people's pressure.

warui · Post by **warui** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:37 pm

> I have more than an idea. I have work, I have code, I have more done than what you think.
So show us what you got. Till that moment your just like a kidd yelling "i'll make the best ever".

> But I have DEDICATION, PERSISTANCE and PASSION, something these projects may have lacked.
Believe me, they also had these... in the begining.

> Look at PlaneShift. It's made by a core group of people using a MUCH harder engine yet they have their own server and a legion of fans. Their work has vision and dedication.
And this project has over four years and nearly 30 people are involed. And they still far away from any commercial product.

Is John Carmack arrogant? What about Peter Molynoux? Or Tim Sweeny? They speak big AND they deliver. They have passion, dedication and skill.
They have also money and people and this is realy importent for big projects.

And about why i keep saying what i saying is that i've seen too many project like this failing. Too many people left gamedev bissnes because they started too big projects that wasn't able to finish. So they thought that games making is not for them just because they mad mistake of trying to do too much.

And i want to see more people and more games, not more borndead project and people giving up.

I know we learn of mistakes, but who said that it must be our mistakes.

Robomaniac · Post by **Robomaniac** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:49 pm

I give you 30 days til you give up on this bloatware

warui · Post by **warui** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:53 pm

"Bloatware" nice name for such project

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:09 pm

I'M still worried about giving up on 2080 and I have a bit done already. I have a few people to prove wrong however, so prehaps that is the reason I butcher on. Prehaps that will fade one day and I will stop working on it as my project is quite big but I'd like to think that I will finish it. Working under milestones helps keep me sheltered from the sheer amount of work that needs to be done so I think I should at least finish the tech demo's. If I only get that far I can be proud of what I have done for myself, what others think is their matter.

Prehaps everyone telling this guy that he can't do it will drive him on. I'd like to think so. All I can to Captain is that you should go and prove us wrong, not tell us we are wrong.

Words mean jack, I challange you to prove us wrong.

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:20 pm

Warui:
Out of all the people, you and Guest have been NOTHING BUT negativty. If you don't have anything productive to add then GO AWAY. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything but you seem intent on forcing me away.

The question I ask is WHY? How come you all seem intent on bringing my dreams down? Because you can? Because you think you know what's right for someone else? Or is it because I'm not as old as some of you people here? You don't think I've got the experience or the knowledge?

I now know why I never really speak to people. It doesn't matter how I try to present things there's always people who treat me and what I stand for like poop. The only reason why I'm still here is that Irrlicht is a great engine which I like working with. I've also talked to some nice people here.

I've tried to be patient but my patience is wearing thin...

Believe me, they also had these... in the begining.

And why the heck won't my project have any of those qualities? Do you think it'll just fizzle out? Do you seriously think I'd be stupid enough to start up a project if I knew it wasn't possible? Why would this project die out?

Where's the awesome stuff you've done? Prove to me your as good as what your tone implies.

PS. I've been working on this project for about 3 fuggin years. You really think I'd give up now?

erSitzt · Post by **erSitzt** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:30 pm

bla blub...

Surely you have tons of models, maps, textures and concept art so why are you arguing ???

Post an image or two and we all will stop being so 'negative'.

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:37 pm

"Bloatware" nice name for such project

Yeah whatever...

If you don't have anything productive to say apart from 'this will fail' or 'this idea sucks' then go away. If you have suggestions that are valid and real then say them! I want to hear them. I like criticism as it encourages me to do more better.

How about a tech demo? What about a 3D RTS Tech Demo? Would THAT convince you? Or would you just claim I faked it? Or maybe say how crap it is? What would I gain from releasing it? People would then be able to pay out my coding style... yay...

If I could I'd set a definate due day for the tech demo. Maybe I will. I have the skills to do everything myself. Art is no problem, same with coding. I now know enough to make a demo. So be it then. You all want proof. I'll give you proof. Just wait and see. It may not be perfect, but it'll be good.

And unless you have something productive to add, don't bother posting. I don't care if you think it isn't possible. If it's not possible, then so be it but until I discover problems I will keep working on it. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it.

bla blub...

Surely you have tons of models, maps, textures and concept art so why are you arguing ???

Post an image or two and we all will stop being so 'negative'.

Yeah you're right. Too much time wasted. It was worth a shot announcing my project first. Even if it does result in flames.

PS. Would posting my dev documents silence people? Or aren't they good enough?

warui · Post by **warui** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:54 pm

OK, so i'll wait till i you release that tech demo. After 3 years of work it shouldn't be a problem, is it ?

And why i'm nagative ? As i said i want games not projects. I would be very happy if i could play your game, not just see the web page saying that work is in progress for four or more years.

AssiDragon · Post by **AssiDragon** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:18 pm

A question to the yellers. If you are not working on a project, what the heck are you doing here? If you have nothing to use Irrlicht for, what are you doing here?
If you have a project - PHOEY! YOU SUCK! HOW DARE YOU?! YOU ARE A FRIGGING STUPID NUB!

Hell, I can't think of any opensource project that was close to commercial things. So, thinking this way, I can start bashing all of you because.
a. you have no project, so what are you doing here
b. you have only an idea of your project, go home, you will never ever do something
c. you have a project?! wtf! it sucks! I can show xy commercial game which is better! Abandon it, you wont ever get anywhere anyway.

Apart from that, seems you can't post your ideas on a discussion board, because instead of discussion you will only get hammering with the end meaning "uninstall Irrlicht right now and play with your toys and most important don't post silly things"

hope some of you will start a project one day, tell me, I am soooooooo eager to go there and bash all of you (even if not I am the target here).

Though I sorta have a guess why is this here this way (too many actual newcomers doing the post "i wanna make an mmporg!" then disappearing) I sure as hell know I would never ever post anything here now, apart from criticism...

PS:As for the guy who posted about Carmack. I don't think he had the money in the beginning. He was just talented. He didn't have more than I or you have - but the sheer ability to do nice things. But, he made his way up. If you can actually do something quite well, chances are you will be asked into a team or people will be willing to work with you.

Robomaniac · Post by **Robomaniac** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:19 pm

I'm not intent on destroying your dreams, all i'm saying is that as of now, this is bloatware. Tons of features, no shots (yet) released, no show progress...

vaporware is what its called, you have a concept, you have a design, but no product as of now

Show me something and i'll believe

[edit] i like your concept, but chances are unless you have a large staff, lots of money, and uber-smarts, its never going to get off the ground

[edit edit] AssiDragon: I am working on a project, and I'm not saying that it will be commercial quality, actually, i pretty much know it won't be the next hit. BUT, i have realistic goals of what to do, and i know how to do it. In case you were wondering :

http://centaurforce.sourceforge.net/web ... ntauri.jpg

i released screens, am making progress, and am coming along

AssiDragon · Post by **AssiDragon** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:51 pm

Robomaniac wrote:[edit edit] AssiDragon: I am working on a project, and I'm not saying that it will be commercial quality, actually, i pretty much know it won't be the next hit. BUT, i have realistic goals of what to do, and i know how to do it. In case you were wondering :

http://centaurforce.sourceforge.net/web ... ntauri.jpg

i released screens, am making progress, and am coming along

Realistic goals... depends what you mean under realistic. I now won't say a word more about my project, I do not want to get bashed. If under realistic aims you mean doing things I'm at least 90% sure I can do, I wouldn't start any project I think. There are things you have vague idea of, and only then make a detailed solution to. (Unless on the very first time you start up with a many dozen page long devdoc, and never have to change it during the whole project. That's... unlikely.

). Aims through the development change. Even with commercial projects like HalfLife or any other game! If you start off with aims you are sure to do and have solutions to every piece even at the start, that means your ideas were already developed. But, if you have everything developed, what will you develop further on?

When you announce a project, you can only show things if you already have a team behind you. If you don't have a team, chances are you won't get too far alone in everything... But then you can't announce anythign without a team. Ofc showing something is nice, but with most people I tend to wait till the playable version. No offense, it's just screenshots don't represent anything (apart from the modells you use, which is nice btw). However, I don't start yelling at people just because they started they work. If the first release comes, I check it. If it's good, then cool, I have another game taking my precious time away. If it sux, or they fail to do even one release, I didn't loose anything did I? So what would be the point of bashing?

BTW, you are doing two projects together now? Roboengine and Centaur force? Hope you won't end up like Cube *eeeew*

Captain_Kill · Post by **Captain_Kill** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:55 pm

Great, I'm glad people actually like the idea of the tech demo.

Now I have a generic question you can help answer for me, should I:

A) Release in about 2 or so weeks, or less BUT require people to have Quake 3 installed (or maybe just the demo, ie. you d/l the demo and my game will then use its assets instead)

B) Release later, with original art + stuff from PolyCount. No Q3 required but you'll have to put up with my dodgy 'programmer art'

A couple of notes about the tech demo:
* Graphics will be dodgy

* AI will be kinda bad for the overall 'strategic' AI, but the unit AI is another different story... Expect to see some VERY cool stuff

* Only the bare minimum of units. Don't expect an entire game!

* Won't be based on DR. The team will be a sought of Marine team
* I may or may not release the source (People who I trust will get it no questions asked though)

* Windows only, unless I do release the source
* Newton physics for grenades, vehicles etc. No ragdolls (yet)
* Audiere Audio Library (Why? 'Cause it's easy to use)
* Probably only 1 map...
* No MP but there'll be basic SP AI
* Crazy GUI. If you have played DR before, you'll have no problems. Otherwise have fun

* Some stuff will blow you away. I have ideas that have NEVER been tried in an RTS let alone a game...

* If you choose Robomaniac, warui or certain other names as your player name, the game will restart your PC and format your hard disk for you!

(Just kidding! Although I could make the AI godlike

)

This is more of a generic RTS base rather than Dark Reign 3... Just to show I can do it

Assi:
You got my bit about Carmack SPOT on. He started with practically nothing but look at where he is now

Thanks m8

Incase I feel like another distraction, do you need any mappers/low poly modelers for SotP? I can model in either MS3D or Max, I have DeepPaint and I can map in Gtk or maybe even MS3D (Although I would be better in Gtk...) I also have a crapload of textures available + some models from an old project

If you want any of it or some examples of what I can do just email me here: captain_killau@yahoo.com.au. You may even be able to catch me on MSN occasionaly... captain_killau@hotmail.com

Oh yeah, if you see anything I make that could be used in SotP, I'm willing to implement it in. (That goes for art and code) I just like your whole project and I'll do what I can to help. (Time permitting

Freakin days are too short...)

Again, good luck and I really can't wait to see what SotP turns out like

/me goes off to code...

[edit]
u fully c0pyed thAt sH0tgun m0delz Robomanic!11!!!!!1! u fully r1pped it outz of quak3 didn't uz?//???//? i g0 telz Mr cArMak, he comz aNd 0wnz0r u!!111!11!

I thought you were using Irrlicht... Looks cool, the water FX especially.

Robomaniac · Post by **Robomaniac** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:09 pm

yeah, that is the q3 shotgun, seems like we do have something similar in our projects

I'm using ogre, not making RoboEngine now (its on hold til i'm done centaur force), I'd be extremely happy, and my view would change completely if you can get that td out that quick

. I'd avoid having ppl dl q3 to play it thouhg, i'd suggest using http://www.3dm-mc.com/modelsbank/index.php for models, lots of free models (have to create a free account, thats where i got the q3 shotgun from). I'd appreciate it if u didn't make if format my hdd though