What formats and editors should I use?

[elchci]

Hi!
I'm new to Irrlicht and to game development at all. I saw that Irrlicht supports a lot of different formats for the same function.
For 3d objects it supports .md2 , .x , .b3d and many more. Which of them is the best (especially for me as a beginner)?
I'm using Linux at the moment so I've started to create first applications using OpenGL and not DirectX. That's why I shouldn't take .x , right?
For not animated objects I'd like to use .md2 first because I already have some objects I could use them. There's just one problem: I didn't find a good editor for making my own models yet. Which one would you suggest?
For animated objects I've read that .b3d is very good. For creating skeletal animations I downloaded an add-on for blender that exports to .b3d, but it's very hard for me because every tutorial uses a different version than mine . Is there an easier way than using blender or do you know a good tutorial for blender 2.69 for Linux?
Last thing I'd like to know is how to make scenes. I tried IrrEdit-1.5 but I couldn't see anything in my scene using OpenGL, it just worked with Burning's Video or Software Renderer, sorry I can't remember it exactly anymore. Somewhere I've read IrrEdit only supports DirectX, I only got it running with Wine too...
Quake 3's .bsp has a lot more Editors and the final map works with Linux and with OpenGL I think. Should I take this format? Which editor will run under Linux?

and not to forget: I tried the example tutorial "XML Handling". It worked good, but I heard XML is bullshit, I should rather use Config files (.cfg) ... but how?

Irrlicht seemed to be almost dead for me so I hope anyone will answer.
Thanks to everyone reading this and helping me!

[CuteAlien]

Ow, lot's of questions :-)

OK, let's get the misconceptions out of the way first:

.X is was created by Microsoft, but is not depending on DirectX. It's just a format describing models. So you can use that with OpenGL.

About XML being bullshit... uhm - hang around a while and you will hear that pretty much about any technology. Some people just hate some tech for whatever reasons. But XML is one of the most used technologies out there and there is no real reason to avoid it. Use what works - everything else doesn't matter much. (Also XML's main competitor is rather json and not .cfg files).

For creating your own animations Blender is the best tool I know on Linux. Don't even know any real competitor there. It's a tool that needs time to learn, so don't expect to have great models in a weekend. I don't know any better tutorials than those which are out there. Having tutorials for older versions is sometimes a little annoying, but it's generally possible to figure things out. Otherwise ask in the #blender IRC channel for help. And start with static meshes first - animating is rather hard, so it helps to get along with Blender first.

When working with Blender the best format for animated models is likely b3d with the exporter from supertuxkart: https://sourceforge.net/p/supertuxkart/ ... lender_25/.
For non-skeletal animations .X might work. For static models you can use .obj format. You have to experiment there - export in different formats - then check if it loads in the Meshviewer example and how it looks like.

Can't help much with scene-editors, I've never used one (except some self-written tools).

[elchci]

First of all, thanks for all the answers .

But XML is one of the most used technologies out there and there is no real reason to avoid it

Hm... I thought about using Irrlicht or Unreal 4 Engine (https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/ue4-is-free). I decided to learn how an engine works, so I'm trying Irrlicht first because it's much easier to understand than UE4 (next to the name "Irrlicht" that I like as a German ). I was surprised that you said XML is so much used but it makes me happier again after searching for hours how I could include cfg it to Irrlicht ... Even if it's possible that was a too ambitious aim for me and I'd maybe have given up with Irrlicht otherwise.
For asking the next question :
Is Irrlicht nowadays still good enough for creating a good engine, when even SuperTuxKart is going to switch to another graphic engine?

For creating your own animations Blender is the best tool I know on Linux

I agree... At the moment I'm learning image and video rendering techniques there (I hope it won't bother you, but do you know if the blender game or physics engine is already included to the standart Blender?). Fortunately I have a very good pc, so the rendering times are still OK. I never saw a better free program for that function

When working with Blender the best format for animated models is likely b3d with the exporter from supertuxkart: https://sourceforge.net/p/supertuxkart/ ... lender_25/.

I downloaded a .b3d export script named gandaldf. I tried some tutorials, but it was always the same: everything worked well until the guy who made the video used a shortcut that opened a menu which doesn't exist in my version. Very annoying! I spent a lot of hours on finding any explanation in the Blender documentations and at any time I give up... Creating anything without watching a tutorial that shows every step is much easier of course

For non-skeletal animations .X might work

For static models you can use .obj format.

OK, both are new for me, I'm going to try them.

check if it loads in the Meshviewer example and how it looks like.

This example is the most useful for me at the moment. I started to create a new gun skin for a .md2 object. Except the game I'm going to use it for there's no other program with that I can open .md2 with.

Thank you very much, your answers will help me
My questions don't really refer to Irrlicht but they might help other people who want to begin with game development as I do.
I hope I'll have success with learning it and that I won't annoy you with my questions too much

[elchci]

For scene-editors:
I don't know why I didn't find this earlier:
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/v ... =5&t=13019
But of course I used google and the search function in this forum before writing my post

[CuteAlien]

Is Irrlicht nowadays still good enough for creating a good engine, when even SuperTuxKart is going to switch to another graphic engine?

I don't know much about STK development. I'm using Irrlicht for my projects - I think it's fine :-) But I'm mostly a lone-wolf developer. So my requirements are not the same as those of big teams with lot's of artists. I don't need advanced features because I couldn't create the assets for those. For example my typical models are fine with 2 textures per polygon. While in a big game I've seen artists use more than 10 textures on a single polygon. I couldn't afford that. Irrlicht's current vertex format is rather strict and only has 2 uv coordinates supported (you can have more textures, but not more uv's). I think the shader-branch of Irrlicht (where Nadro experiments with future features) makes this more flexible. For me that's fine - it means the engine is fast and easy to use - for a team which needs more uv's it's obviously a horror.

It's hard to have both - all features and ease of use. I love working with Irrlicht because the source is free and the code is understandable enough that I can read though every part of it and have an idea what's going on. And Irrlicht is easy to extend or adapt. This makes it a powerful tool for me. But if someone would pay me to create the next Unreal competitor with a big team I probably wouldn't use it.

TL;DR: Depends on which features your game needs.

I downloaded a .b3d export script named gandaldf.

Unless there is a new version out the gandaldf script is likely outdated. It was written for Blender up to 2.49 - after which their interface changed enough that it really should have been called Blender 3. So better use the STK exporter.

[CuteAlien]

For scene-editors there's also: http://irrrpgbuilder.sourceforge.net/