Any other decent 3D Graphics Engines besides Irrlicht??

[REDDemon]

definitely prefer a gui client if available (for windows the best is SourceTree, followed by Github for windows and then by TortoiseGIT).

[CuteAlien]

@hendu: Yeah, you could have all those branche in one repository in git and then not type the full url. Maybe even possible in svn somehow (as it's also in one repository) - never tried. But that doesn't matter, that just is not a problem. Users not being able to create own trees easy is a problem. Or SF behaving plain evil recently is a problem.

No worries, I get why people prefer distributed source control systems (I use hg for a while now). But git's still messing with me far too often in my relative simple projects. I don't even care if I don't like it - will still switch to it as most users here prefer it. But I have to be able to at least work with it without wishing to shoot it every few weeks (aka pretty much every time I need to do something that goes beyond the trivial basics). I should invest more time in learning it, but source control systems are to me boring as hell and I have already 2 which just work ... so some motivation problem as well :-/

[johann_gambolputty]

No worries, I get why people prefer distributed source control systems (I use hg for a while now). But git's still messing with me far too often in my relative simple projects. I don't even care if I don't like it - will still switch to it as most users here prefer it. But I have to be able to at least work with it without wishing to shoot it every few weeks (aka pretty much every time I need to do something that goes beyond the trivial basics). I should invest more time in learning it, but source control systems are to me boring as hell and I have already 2 which just work ... so some motivation problem as well :-/

Thank god i saw this post! now i know i'm not the only one who feels EXACLY the same way.Git is totally unnecessary , and stuff that ivolves commandline/terminal in the 21th century... i really hate that...
I mean no offense but we live in the era where humanity is near not travel to mars , colozine planets ( ), kids have touch screen cellphones ... For god's sake why do i still need to type words /commands into commandline ?Just before someone mentions "Oh you can't expect everything to work out of the box" I don't want everything out of the box but if something can be achieved with a simple button click , why just not press a button instead of writing/navigate/command a boring commandline ?

[sudi]

Thank god i saw this post! now i know i'm not the only one who feels EXACLY the same way.Git is totally unnecessary , and stuff that ivolves commandline/terminal in the 21th century... i really hate that...
I mean no offense but we live in the era where humanity is near not travel to mars , colozine planets ( ), kids have touch screen cellphones ... For god's sake why do i still need to type words /commands into commandline ?Just before someone mentions "Oh you can't expect everything to work out of the box" I don't want everything out of the box but if something can be achieved with a simple button click , why just not press a button instead of writing/navigate/command a boring commandline ?

Nice, i guess you have been doing programming for about 3-4years? Give it some more time and you will suddenly change your opinion about gui and command line tools.

[archmagus]

No worries, I get why people prefer distributed source control systems (I use hg for a while now). But git's still messing with me far too often in my relative simple projects. I don't even care if I don't like it - will still switch to it as most users here prefer it. But I have to be able to at least work with it without wishing to shoot it every few weeks (aka pretty much every time I need to do something that goes beyond the trivial basics). I should invest more time in learning it, but source control systems are to me boring as hell and I have already 2 which just work ... so some motivation problem as well :-/

Thank god i saw this post! now i know i'm not the only one who feels EXACLY the same way.Git is totally unnecessary , and stuff that ivolves commandline/terminal in the 21th century... i really hate that...
I mean no offense but we live in the era where humanity is near not travel to mars , colozine planets ( ), kids have touch screen cellphones ... For god's sake why do i still need to type words /commands into commandline ?Just before someone mentions "Oh you can't expect everything to work out of the box" I don't want everything out of the box but if something can be achieved with a simple button click , why just not press a button instead of writing/navigate/command a boring commandline ?

It's a matter of simplicity for the programmer. Designing a GUI is more complicated than throwing together a command line, the GUI needs an extra library, and GUI design is highly subjective. If you want a GUI for some command line tool, download one or try making one! The fact of the matter is that GUIs are harder to write, change and update than CLI and sometimes GUIs just don't make sense.
CLIs make it very simple to patch together scripts that perform lots of things at once, you generally cannot do that with a GUI. A GUI is more friendly to human beings, but scripting becomes harder, etc. There are pros and cons to GUI vs CLI and I don't want to start a flame war over this.

Note that there are (supposedly) GUIs for Git and SVN, try them out if you like.


-- Archmagus aka "I love CLI"

[johann_gambolputty]

Thank god i saw this post! now i know i'm not the only one who feels EXACLY the same way.Git is totally unnecessary , and stuff that ivolves commandline/terminal in the 21th century... i really hate that...
I mean no offense but we live in the era where humanity is near not travel to mars , colozine planets ( ), kids have touch screen cellphones ... For god's sake why do i still need to type words /commands into commandline ?Just before someone mentions "Oh you can't expect everything to work out of the box" I don't want everything out of the box but if something can be achieved with a simple button click , why just not press a button instead of writing/navigate/command a boring commandline ?

Nice, i guess you have been doing programming for about 3-4years? Give it some more time and you will suddenly change your opinion about gui and command line tools.

No.I'm doing programming 7-8 years (or more if i count my c64 era ) . I didn't say i'm not using the command line, i said that i found it unituitive , waste of time especially in game development where you must focus on zillions other things + you work on them alone or maybe with 1-2 people... i just don't want to waste time with typing... For me programming is programming not editing xml files and fiddling with command lines... So following your logic graphic desigers should also avoid convenient gui based editors an draw their work on paper then input it pixel by pixel in paint...
If you enjoy typing endless novels in commandline i'm cool with that , but i hate it.
thats something like instead of using your car's steering wheel type commands in the commandline like "car goleft -d -g" "car goright -d -g". and try navigate through the city...

[sunnystormy]

@johann_gambolputty

Except we don't use a command-line interface for cars (nor do they operate in such a way that would make that interface rational)... which makes your point fallacious (argumentum ad absurdum). >_>

There are times where I prefer the command line, and times where a single "button click" helps eliminate the tediousness of verbose commands.

I don't think a zero-sum argument is appropriate here. The command line is more "computer-intimate", whereas a GUI is more "user-friendly". Depending on the level of experience/tolerance, one of those can become more friendly/unfriendly.

I would say I'm at a point where the command line has become more friendly than it used to be. The benefit is that I can now personally enjoy having a more intimate connection with (and better understanding of) my machine. Perhaps someday other people will get there too? : /

[sudi]

@johann_gambolputty your arguments did not make much sense there like sunnystormy said. Besides as soon as you want to automate certain things you are pretty much lost when having to use a gui.

[REDDemon]

and you get compiled executable even before Visual studio has finished loading at startup XD

[johann_gambolputty]

Except we don't use a command-line interface for cars (nor do they operate in such a way that would make that interface rational)... which makes your point fallacious (argumentum ad absurdum)

If you didn't get the analogy i'm sorry. ok let me explain you : if you have a modern car with servo steering wheel (in this case lets say a pc with quadcore cpu 32 GB ram , a modern totally GUI based operating system and a mouse) i don't want to type anything except maybe writing emails or using Skype...

and you get compiled executable even before Visual studio has finished loading at startup XD

Ok lets do another test. Lets say my visual studio is already running ... Now lets see you create a new project , add dependancies , add source and header files. In the meantime realize that you don't like the current music track playing in your media player so skip to next one , change your compile settings from Debug to Release
and copy some media files to your project folder...

I've would probably dringking my coffee watching my app running while you still typing you Danielle Steel novels...
I even win if VS already started and both have setup our project... since pressing a build button beats typing Compile.bat every time

[ent1ty]

fight!

fight what?

Don't ask what - just fight!

Is it not amusing how history can repeat itself even withing such short time intervals?

[REDDemon]

Ok lets do another test. Lets say my visual studio is already running ... Now lets see you create a new project , add dependancies , add source and header files. In the meantime realize that you don't like the current music track playing in your media player so skip to next one , change your compile settings from Debug to Release
and copy some media files to your project folder...

I've would probably dringking my coffee watching my app running while you still typing you Danielle Steel novels...
I even win if VS already started and both have setup our project... since pressing a build button beats typing Compile.bat every time

Yes Visual studio is great if you can afford a powerful enough machine (its surprising how hurts waiting for autocompletion in medium range machines) and want to develop for Win/Xbox only using projects that provide binaries for your VS version (at this point you are better no longer using C++ but instead use C# and you will even save some time). End of the story.

The point is that when you target multiple platforms (especially on GameDevelopment like these days) and you are not using an Ide that is doing already that (says Unity or Eclipse+libGDX) I don't want to waste time setting up a VS project doing that. It is possible (VS has scripting and can use other compilers as well), but it is not scalable with VS.

Microsoft literally created a perfect Ide (well ipotetically, there are lot of things I dislike but assume it is perfect, bug free and performant), but the world is imperfect.

Assume you want to use VS to cross compile:
- Cross compilers are not good idea (they can't be boostrapped, well you could boostrap on Windows, then build the WindowToLinux cross compiler use that compiler for the standAlone Linuxcompiler, bootstrap it, use it to build the LinuxToWindows crosscompiler and use it to build the Windows only and the WindowToLinux and finally see if the binary is the same (proving there are no bugs in the cross-toolchain: however this was the Windows->Linux toolchain. In general X->Y is different from Y->X and you have serveral systems wich is exponential complexity just to be sure your toolchain is bugfree for at least a subset of the features, wich is unrealistic).

Of course if you have a language running in a VirtualMachine there's less effort in crosscompiling (but you are no longer using C++)

- Then discard the cross-compiler idea: VS is not avaialable on other platforms (it is even no longer available on windows XP and VISTA , they are teaching good about maintenance cost infact )
- Then use Visual studio on windows and other compiler/ides on other platforms
- You still have to maintain multiple solutions/project files ( in example SDL2 development is going really slow because it's targetin EVERY existing build system O_O in one year still stick to v2.0.3 and every single toolchain has bugs that prevent building sometimes)

-with cmake you maintain 1 build system only and you get automatically VS support if you like it. (it even makes simpler when you target 1 platform, Cmake is not the MAKE EVERYTHING tool it has lots of downsides, it all depends "how you use it", most people still use it "the wrong way")

Mine solution is scalable, if you complain about typing "Compile.bat" (wich is by the way "co + TAB" because terminal has autocompletion) you can just use the cmake GUI (that has 1 button XD) so yeah, you win, running against children. I don't win, but I run against giants. Slowly most big C++ projects are switching to CMake, I even wanted to contribute that to irrlicht, but another user already did that

FLAME OFF

[CuteAlien]

@ent1ty: nice one :-)

[sunnystormy]

Why are we no longer talking about alternative 3D graphic engines?

Bad trolls are bad.

[Darktib]

That subject drift was pretty epic !

For git I find SmartGit pretty intuitive - you can do probably everything you can do with the cli, except it is graphical and more intuitive. Plus it is free and runs on Linux / Windows. (Hopefully for the cli there is still stackoverflow)