OpenGL & OpenGL-ES deprecated on iOS 12

[DanielBocksteger]

Hi there,

will irrlicht be extended to support the Metal API on iOS until then? Or will irrlicht run on legacy/deprecated APIs then?

Regards,
Daniel

[devsh]

Irrlicht already runs only on legacy/deprecated APIs.

DirectX 9 and OpenGL Compatibility Profile


I won't support Metal because I think its stupid and I legitimately hate Apple, but I will use MoltenVK to translate Vulkan API (once I finish that) calls to Metal API calls and make the Mac OS and iOS users pay for the difference in balance.

[CuteAlien]

@devsh: Legacy yes, but deprecated?
@DanielBocksteger: iOS support is getting worse as the only maintainer we had for that hasn't really done anything for ~ 1 year now. Unless anyone else takes over iOS support I don't really see much of a future there. I don't have an apple system myself and don't plan on getting one. So sorry, but no plans for Metal right now to my knowledge (unless Nadro works on that in secret).
edit: Only seeing right now in other news that this is already planned for macOS 10.14. So I guess Irrlicht for apple coming to an end :-(

[devsh]

As in these APIs are no longer getting ANY bugfixes (drivers), ANY debuggers, and any backwards compatibility is through software layers (in drivers).

[CuteAlien]

@devsh. Yeah, sure. But I think Apple is the first one to really deprecate it. If others follow... guess once I'm forced to I'll spend time on it. I never used or worked with Apple so there's little chance I will be the one to work on that. If anyone wants to care about a Metal port I can give the person svn write access.

[DanielBocksteger]

I won't support Metal because I think its stupid and I legitimately hate Apple, but I will use MoltenVK to translate Vulkan API (once I finish that) calls to Metal API calls and make the Mac OS and iOS users pay for the difference in balance.

I don't really like this kind of argumentation. "O won't support it, because I think it's stupid"...

As an iOS Developer, I have an Apple Development System and could try my luck, with porting or bridging to Metal. But I do not have any experiences with low level graphic engine programming. So it could be a long way, maybe without an end.

[devsh]

I don't really like this kind of argumentation. "O won't support it, because I think it's stupid"...

There is a really long argumentation why Apple:
A) Doesn't know what its doing with regards to Graphics APIs and Never did (why you are seeing more and better looking games on Linux)
B) Apple being straight up cunts by creating vendor lock-in and sabotaging open standards

I will support Apple, just as badly as they support me.
I will not spend more time on Apple specific development than is needed, and I will certainly not optimize for their platform.
I will take the path of least resistance and least work.

[CuteAlien]

I think I haven't seen a single positive reaction on the net to them deprecating OpenGL. Really strange move by Apple.

[devsh]

Not a strange move, foresaw it 3 or 4 years ago.

[Mel]

Deprecating OpenGL looks very "Apple-ish" Closed even in their own Graphics API. Probably people will "melt" OpenGL into Metal through wrappers, just like MoltenVK. Well, i think that will backfire, as people won't spend their time learning 3 API just to port a program to iOS or iPhone, and will focus just on MoltenVK, and run from it so they can port from Android as well. I understand the mentality behind, but i think it is miserable. If it was me, i'd drop Direct3D12 and Metal, and just turn the whole planet into Vulkan/OpenGL. Apple has hit bone with that move.

[devsh]

I think deliberately throttling Metal through MoltenVK is a briliant way of saying nobody-wants-your-API and enable-vulkan-on-your-platform.

If most devs did it, it would be successful.

[Mel]

Same goes for VK on Universal Windows Platform and Direct3D12. Is curious, because, at least on AMD, seems that VK and Direct3D12 are built over the same universal AMD architecture API (so they can build the drivers for all their hardware faster) which resembles very much to Vulkan, maybe Metal as well. but really, making the effort of building a proprietary graphics API when you have Khronos doing that for you is just wanting to throw away your money, and kicking in the nuts all those who want to multiplatform their applications, saying "Hey, choose one and only one API, and screw the rest" Things don't work like that, For Apple is not a wise motion, they're not the first in desktop computers precisely, so people will pick the first option at hand, and later, maybe, port their stuff specially to them. I wonder if Photoshop will keep running on Apple after this, their API of choice is precisely OpenGL.

[sunnystormy]

I noticed that Debian GNU/Linux no longer supports ES1 at the library level, only ES2 and above. We may need to add an option to compile Irrlicht-1.9 without ES1.

[CuteAlien]

Yeah, ES1 probably will be in the 1.9 release, but deprecated. And using it's own compile-flags. There is very little reason to use it for any project by now (only 2 reasons I can think of: 1. to support a specific hardware system 2. you want to work with fixed function pipeline for whatever reason).