http://www.danielpatton.com/afecelis/Tr ... emaker.zip
treemagik released free...and..keep an eye on Arbaro!
don't know if it may help guys, but some years ago there was an app called "treemaker". Before closing the site, Gijs Van Schelven, its creator, released it for free. I think it's a tool that may also come in handy. Although it may not be as advanced as the ones you mention above, it exports to obj, 3ds and lwo which are very popular 3d formats, and all you gotta do is create a texture with the leaves and the log since everything is a mesh. If it comes out with a very high polycount use a mesh optimizer (3dsmax has got good optimizing options). So I looked in some oldskool backup cds and found it, now you may get it here:
http://www.danielpatton.com/afecelis/Tr ... emaker.zip
http://www.danielpatton.com/afecelis/Tr ... emaker.zip
forgot to say!!!
unzip the treemaker demo, install using setup and then replace the .exe with the one in the second zip to make it non-demo version.
cheers!
unzip the treemaker demo, install using setup and then replace the .exe with the one in the second zip to make it non-demo version.
cheers!
Last edited by afecelis on Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
for max users, there seem to be a very interesting script for making trees, and seems to have become very popular lately (I think u'll likely, afe)
lol, it's the second! of the top 10 scripts at scriptspot, no less...
http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=870&inf=1
me I'm quitely happy with Arbaro (and I'm helping the author to improve it, as have done with several tools you'r very familiar too, lol(you'd be surprised how many , hehe)) The man is really tallented, I'm just helping art-side, testing some important stuff....
It's my fav tree maker till today, and I have used even expensive comercial ones.Arbaro has a lot of settings, but ppl usually don't use it to all extents...its flexibility can become close to none, that is, with no extra external editing, i can output really low pol trees with it...and export in obj format....
I'm really curious about treemagik (I already new bout that treemaker and the site down also...but never tried it seriously...)
....yet though prefer arbaro,also as is open source, and well, I like a lot how it's made and what I can do with it...it comes with trees (xml files) with accurate real trees....very huge poly, but as i say, i can output low pol.and to any with som gfx knowledge, the editing of the exported tree is trivial ,
lol, it's the second! of the top 10 scripts at scriptspot, no less...
http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=870&inf=1
me I'm quitely happy with Arbaro (and I'm helping the author to improve it, as have done with several tools you'r very familiar too, lol(you'd be surprised how many , hehe)) The man is really tallented, I'm just helping art-side, testing some important stuff....
It's my fav tree maker till today, and I have used even expensive comercial ones.Arbaro has a lot of settings, but ppl usually don't use it to all extents...its flexibility can become close to none, that is, with no extra external editing, i can output really low pol trees with it...and export in obj format....
I'm really curious about treemagik (I already new bout that treemaker and the site down also...but never tried it seriously...)
....yet though prefer arbaro,also as is open source, and well, I like a lot how it's made and what I can do with it...it comes with trees (xml files) with accurate real trees....very huge poly, but as i say, i can output low pol.and to any with som gfx knowledge, the editing of the exported tree is trivial ,
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
lol, seems there's another..listed among fast movers...but much more simple than arbaro, i mean, less flexibility, maybe,but like the other script, inside max...
http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=2915&inf=1
http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=2915&inf=1
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
"Hm, strange... With TreeMagic I got for one .x tree 300-400 triangles, but my frame rating is going down from 60 to 9 FPS, when camera is near to the tree Question"
dunno in irrlicht , but in general gam engines, many surfaces/entities, can be a bottle neck...arbaro outputs two groups : trunk+terns, and another group, the leaves. maybe treemagik exports a grou per leaf, dunno.that'd killl any engine, even a low pol tree.
maybe vertices get out un-connected. also a possible reason.
i doubt is using many textures.
some engines have prblems when drawing almost coincident walls. upload ur tree exported, et captor, just the mesh and textures in a zip, just as u load em in irrlicht i'll surely will know what happens.
"Also leaf are displaced."
dunno. in arbaro u can place with leavez distribution and location.
for its nature, leaves are allways unconected objects, though like in arbaro, attached as one surface, just not welded.
one think i'd like in arbaro is the automatic weld and transition at base of main branches from trunk...anyway, these are easily welkded if ur a modeller.
btw, as i'm terribly curious, gonna try the other options here..
btw, there's an l-system tree pyhton script to make trees inside blender,lol...to thoae interested, but is not as advanced as these external ones, imho, and u can allways import objs in blender, arbaro works like charm with it (i made one complex tree in 2 minutes, yesterday and imported in blender, for some arbaro tests...)
"With arbaro tree generator got 2000-3000 vertices, but framerate is goof."
u can go even lower, hope u know u can make 1 tri per leaf, with certain leaf shape type and settings...
" I only cannot export textures with this tool - don't know why."
that's as yet no export obj uvs, but, trust me...hehe...keep tuned... :HUGE wink:
it does export uvs and probably materials in pov format.
and as i say...yum....keep tuned...imho, this project has one of the brightest futures...its open source, and the author is very active about it.
though, previously to had any hopes on it having uv export, i managed to make uvs for it, but involves having an advanced uv tool (features not yet in blender)
but is thousands bette rif the tool provides auto generated uvs...lol..thousand better....i can uv map anything, and trust me, i dont see the day it'll be possible to do this auto....its the task i allways hated more, with a difference.
etcaptor post yous performance sinker tree, i'll help u.
"@vermeer: how do you get the .tga files to work? mine wont work with alpha transparency. i loaded a leaf in gimp and deleted the black background, then saved it as .tga - but that doesnt seem to work! it has always black borders Crying or Very sad"
nope nope...
just deleting the blackbackground wont do....that's so with pngs.
-pngs port transparency.
-tga port alpha channel.
visually, it's the same, the making proccess, is diferent.
in any advanced 2d tool (gimp, adobe, or psp) u need to SAVE the alpha channel inside the program. in adobe is easier. Menu Select, save selection. bang. if u go to channels floating window, ane alpha channel is there, a b/w new thumbnail under the r, g,b, channels. now u save as tga 32bits, and it works.
ok, explanation in gimp, step by step...
ok..seinf it now in gimp 2.23, latest...not as uses to be in adobe...
u must have channels and layers dialogs...
u then rightclick the "background" layer...if its other than the standard in new file, then u may have deleted that intial layer, or paste a new one, duplicated... so, a way is duplicate the bg layer and tart working....
if u instead start from standard bg layer, rightclick on layers dialog, choose "add alpha"
go to channels dialog....it MUST appear the "alpha" channel, just bellow rgb, but NOT under the horizontal bar, just above....as the channel truely exported in the tga is the one just above the horzontal bar, and bellow,r ,g,b channels.
ok, in your image, just select the background with magic wand, or with any of the advanced selection tools and ways u have to make a selection..(ie_: by color, etc)
ctrl+x to CUT it...so to delete it...now u see the tyransparents squares...now u go to channels dialog, and see the alpha channel has the thumbnail b/w shape of ur non transparent shape..if u go painting, like, in transparent areas, that is added as non transparent info to the chhanel..check at the thumbnail...
voilà, export as tga , no rle compression (unless irrlicht eats it well)
Another thing. The transparent leavs in areas where it should be...loaded that treemagik... check that alpha is 1.0 in the chunks or skin...and some settings like bright, maybe forcing an ADD mode, into the exported file...check it.
dunnot like much treemagik, for that, better use my own low pol knowlege..it has some errors, also, in the modelled components, and mapping errors..still, quite good for a coder with no knowledge of modelling.
but is just a billboard based planes, and a few sanmples of pre-modelled trunks...some miles bellow arbaro's power, but extremely easy to use and surely very useful for non modellers...
I may try that one, afe..though i'm too happy with arbaro, and bases on obj... u can achieve as well as total realism, like low poly meshes..but certainly needda clivk on the blue words that appear bellow in left down corner, interactive help for each of every little setting, plus look at the scaned drawing he made for each option.
without doing that, arbaro is not well used.
dunno in irrlicht , but in general gam engines, many surfaces/entities, can be a bottle neck...arbaro outputs two groups : trunk+terns, and another group, the leaves. maybe treemagik exports a grou per leaf, dunno.that'd killl any engine, even a low pol tree.
maybe vertices get out un-connected. also a possible reason.
i doubt is using many textures.
some engines have prblems when drawing almost coincident walls. upload ur tree exported, et captor, just the mesh and textures in a zip, just as u load em in irrlicht i'll surely will know what happens.
"Also leaf are displaced."
dunno. in arbaro u can place with leavez distribution and location.
for its nature, leaves are allways unconected objects, though like in arbaro, attached as one surface, just not welded.
one think i'd like in arbaro is the automatic weld and transition at base of main branches from trunk...anyway, these are easily welkded if ur a modeller.
btw, as i'm terribly curious, gonna try the other options here..
btw, there's an l-system tree pyhton script to make trees inside blender,lol...to thoae interested, but is not as advanced as these external ones, imho, and u can allways import objs in blender, arbaro works like charm with it (i made one complex tree in 2 minutes, yesterday and imported in blender, for some arbaro tests...)
"With arbaro tree generator got 2000-3000 vertices, but framerate is goof."
u can go even lower, hope u know u can make 1 tri per leaf, with certain leaf shape type and settings...
" I only cannot export textures with this tool - don't know why."
that's as yet no export obj uvs, but, trust me...hehe...keep tuned... :HUGE wink:
it does export uvs and probably materials in pov format.
and as i say...yum....keep tuned...imho, this project has one of the brightest futures...its open source, and the author is very active about it.
though, previously to had any hopes on it having uv export, i managed to make uvs for it, but involves having an advanced uv tool (features not yet in blender)
but is thousands bette rif the tool provides auto generated uvs...lol..thousand better....i can uv map anything, and trust me, i dont see the day it'll be possible to do this auto....its the task i allways hated more, with a difference.
etcaptor post yous performance sinker tree, i'll help u.
"@vermeer: how do you get the .tga files to work? mine wont work with alpha transparency. i loaded a leaf in gimp and deleted the black background, then saved it as .tga - but that doesnt seem to work! it has always black borders Crying or Very sad"
nope nope...
just deleting the blackbackground wont do....that's so with pngs.
-pngs port transparency.
-tga port alpha channel.
visually, it's the same, the making proccess, is diferent.
in any advanced 2d tool (gimp, adobe, or psp) u need to SAVE the alpha channel inside the program. in adobe is easier. Menu Select, save selection. bang. if u go to channels floating window, ane alpha channel is there, a b/w new thumbnail under the r, g,b, channels. now u save as tga 32bits, and it works.
ok, explanation in gimp, step by step...
ok..seinf it now in gimp 2.23, latest...not as uses to be in adobe...
u must have channels and layers dialogs...
u then rightclick the "background" layer...if its other than the standard in new file, then u may have deleted that intial layer, or paste a new one, duplicated... so, a way is duplicate the bg layer and tart working....
if u instead start from standard bg layer, rightclick on layers dialog, choose "add alpha"
go to channels dialog....it MUST appear the "alpha" channel, just bellow rgb, but NOT under the horizontal bar, just above....as the channel truely exported in the tga is the one just above the horzontal bar, and bellow,r ,g,b channels.
ok, in your image, just select the background with magic wand, or with any of the advanced selection tools and ways u have to make a selection..(ie_: by color, etc)
ctrl+x to CUT it...so to delete it...now u see the tyransparents squares...now u go to channels dialog, and see the alpha channel has the thumbnail b/w shape of ur non transparent shape..if u go painting, like, in transparent areas, that is added as non transparent info to the chhanel..check at the thumbnail...
voilà, export as tga , no rle compression (unless irrlicht eats it well)
Another thing. The transparent leavs in areas where it should be...loaded that treemagik... check that alpha is 1.0 in the chunks or skin...and some settings like bright, maybe forcing an ADD mode, into the exported file...check it.
dunnot like much treemagik, for that, better use my own low pol knowlege..it has some errors, also, in the modelled components, and mapping errors..still, quite good for a coder with no knowledge of modelling.
but is just a billboard based planes, and a few sanmples of pre-modelled trunks...some miles bellow arbaro's power, but extremely easy to use and surely very useful for non modellers...
I may try that one, afe..though i'm too happy with arbaro, and bases on obj...
u can achieve as well as total realism, like low poly meshes..but certainly needda clivk on the blue words that appear bellow in left down corner, interactive help for each of every little setting, plus look at the scaned drawing he made for each option.without doing that, arbaro is not well used.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
one idea
based on the parallax new mapping some new engines use (code that imports a huge res tree of 200,000 tris, and automatically slices it, generating those billboard planes, but from an actual full tree, not trying to match parts and orientations...)
so, u could generate in arbaro or other a hi res...hmm...to just different renders from angles...do alpha textures with them...build a round the trunk curved sheets, with some teselattion, double sided rendered if irrlicht can..like an revolving primitive formed of curved planes...mapped with those alpha tgas, the different renders from different angles...
would look quite well from a distance and any angle.
specially if it's not too dense the texture(large alpha holes), or you'll do the candy-effect
based on the parallax new mapping some new engines use (code that imports a huge res tree of 200,000 tris, and automatically slices it, generating those billboard planes, but from an actual full tree, not trying to match parts and orientations...)
so, u could generate in arbaro or other a hi res...hmm...to just different renders from angles...do alpha textures with them...build a round the trunk curved sheets, with some teselattion, double sided rendered if irrlicht can..like an revolving primitive formed of curved planes...mapped with those alpha tgas, the different renders from different angles...
would look quite well from a distance and any angle.
specially if it's not too dense the texture(large alpha holes), or you'll do the candy-effect
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
@vermer, thanks for explanation. I can't decide what from these tools to use 
Average quality of trees with treemagik seems not very good by me. Treemaker make high poly trees and if any polygon reducer is used, quality is going down again. A like some tools like SpeedTree, but cannot import those format in irrlicht, also this tool is not free.
About arbaro - very interesting tool. At this time I have not experience with arbaro, but will make some tests. If you have some nice screenshots with this tool, you can post some. My main trees related problem is that must create some good looking forest. Well, therefore one tree must low poly tree. But I want to keep quality. By me the best issue is billboars for leaves, but have not idea for now how to make stuff like that. So, I'll try arbaro tool for now.
Average quality of trees with treemagik seems not very good by me. Treemaker make high poly trees and if any polygon reducer is used, quality is going down again. A like some tools like SpeedTree, but cannot import those format in irrlicht, also this tool is not free.
About arbaro - very interesting tool. At this time I have not experience with arbaro, but will make some tests. If you have some nice screenshots with this tool, you can post some. My main trees related problem is that must create some good looking forest. Well, therefore one tree must low poly tree. But I want to keep quality. By me the best issue is billboars for leaves, but have not idea for now how to make stuff like that. So, I'll try arbaro tool for now.
well...that's another matter..
most allow a seed value (like arbaro's in obj export dialog) o u go exporting with diferent seeds...seen this done ,not with irrlicht, generate jus like 6 different seed models, and then clone by code and random distribute.
for a forest, totally u need low poly.
If i were in a team or company now , and required for that, for an avergae machine I'd do billboards or the likes, and allways depending on camera position, a racing car game may only need some flat quads places at different distance ,facing the camera...
an strategy game often us a tri with anim or static texture...
if ur gonna get nearer and want quality, each tree should anywat go no higher that 100 tris, I guess.Best way should be LOD.
Il-2 sturmovik uses just flat alpha polygons, very well textred ,as plane allways is above, theyr allways paralell to floor.
u notice with a forced landing if u manage to not crash the plane -which in its first version, was not easy..-
also, the "mass" ...u don't need to detail or complete forest interior areas, unless u actually plan to make the camera get inside the forest (ie, medieval quest,etc) If so, imho...lod.Or a fake of it. So u'll be able to do very nice tres when u walk just besides.
if u must walk camera around each tree, from near...need to model it well.
i myself prefer to model low pol by hand.
while huge hi res trees, i prefer arbaro or similar.
both are as a start, i contniue editing.
i made a qucky, low pol, in arbaro, but is crappy as it could be, made too fast.
and..only works well if billboards dont receving lighting...that is as arbaro face orientation is not though for billboards...
for a thing like this, model by hand, or use treemagik.
for higher res...arbaro.(but the uvs and textures i make my own outside, and thats pretty hard if u dont know how too...)
arbaro soon will have uvs in obj export,probably.
this one is 823 tris, but would look thousands better if i had modelled by hand(and however, if would not be doing as fast test)
a sample of a low pol setup in arbaro..
an export of a higher poly, but yet loadable in an engine (7.500 tris.no leaves)
most allow a seed value (like arbaro's in obj export dialog) o u go exporting with diferent seeds...seen this done ,not with irrlicht, generate jus like 6 different seed models, and then clone by code and random distribute.
for a forest, totally u need low poly.
If i were in a team or company now , and required for that, for an avergae machine I'd do billboards or the likes, and allways depending on camera position, a racing car game may only need some flat quads places at different distance ,facing the camera...
an strategy game often us a tri with anim or static texture...
if ur gonna get nearer and want quality, each tree should anywat go no higher that 100 tris, I guess.Best way should be LOD.
Il-2 sturmovik uses just flat alpha polygons, very well textred ,as plane allways is above, theyr allways paralell to floor.
u notice with a forced landing if u manage to not crash the plane -which in its first version, was not easy..-
also, the "mass" ...u don't need to detail or complete forest interior areas, unless u actually plan to make the camera get inside the forest (ie, medieval quest,etc) If so, imho...lod.Or a fake of it. So u'll be able to do very nice tres when u walk just besides.
if u must walk camera around each tree, from near...need to model it well.
i myself prefer to model low pol by hand.
while huge hi res trees, i prefer arbaro or similar.
both are as a start, i contniue editing.
i made a qucky, low pol, in arbaro, but is crappy as it could be, made too fast.
and..only works well if billboards dont receving lighting...that is as arbaro face orientation is not though for billboards...
for a thing like this, model by hand, or use treemagik.
for higher res...arbaro.(but the uvs and textures i make my own outside, and thats pretty hard if u dont know how too...)
arbaro soon will have uvs in obj export,probably.
this one is 823 tris, but would look thousands better if i had modelled by hand(and however, if would not be doing as fast test)
a sample of a low pol setup in arbaro..
an export of a higher poly, but yet loadable in an engine (7.500 tris.no leaves)
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
-
Guest
that alpha channel thingy with .tga does still not work for me, i did exactly what vermeer told me. maybe its opengl´s fault? i cant try directx9 since irrlicht 0.8 doesnt let me compile it in devc++. hm i really need those lowpoly trees for my rts game, or it will run very slow 
i have to think about some other ideas ...
i have to think about some other ideas ...Yes, I need something like that.vermeer wrote:
also, the "mass" ...u don't need to detail or complete forest interior areas, unless u actually plan to make the camera get inside the forest (ie, medieval quest,etc) If so, imho...lod.Or a fake of it. So u'll be able to do very nice tres when u walk just besides.
if u must walk camera around each tree, from near...need to model it well.
Since I know Irrlicht not supports LOD at now...
can't you replace the models at certain distance points? just by code, you'd replace the models.depending on camera distance,u load a simple texture plane with an alpha map of a frontal rendered tree (I asume no flight from up camera) ...as camera get nearer, in certain distance threshold, u replace the model for a higher one, two billboards in cross displaying to renders..at another disytance thershold, replace with a mid poly one of 800 tris (like that above) ...once closer, maybe u can afford a 3k or 4k one.
which count are u aiming to?
oh, seing that treemaker and how to export a nice low pol tree of it...
which count are u aiming to?
oh, seing that treemaker and how to export a nice low pol tree of it...
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
Sounds interesting, but replacement of models will be slow. Also if triangle selectors are used for collision will be spended additional time for recreating of collision.
About count - 100 trees for beginning. Therefore, if we set limit for triangles of whole forest at 20 000 polys - one tree must contain about 200 triangles. Only billboard based tree can be implemented i thinks.
And yet, if we playing with camera culling must be used 3d for chunk and billboards or flat planes for leaves.
About count - 100 trees for beginning. Therefore, if we set limit for triangles of whole forest at 20 000 polys - one tree must contain about 200 triangles. Only billboard based tree can be implemented i thinks.
And yet, if we playing with camera culling must be used 3d for chunk and billboards or flat planes for leaves.