experienced IrrLicht programmer NEEDED

pro01 · Post by **pro01** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:46 am

we are working on a 3d arcade adventure game and after some solid thinking and reviewing of tons of engines, we finally decided to use IrrLicht to power it up. our programmer however is not quite experienced in this stuff and especially with this particular engine, so we need a person with experience to lead the programming. if you feel you have some in-deep knowledge of the IrrLicht engine, 3d programming and you are able to write custom modifications to it in order to fit our game best, please contact me at gamedev@tldstudios.com. the project is quite interesting, so i promise you won't be bored. speaking open, it's simplicity makes it QUITE possible to be completed (unlike many other high-aim projects).

saigumi · Post by **saigumi** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:33 pm

A general rule of thumb that I learned from the GameDev.net "Help Wanted" forums is to shape the type of developer you will need, because a lot of people who are under/over qualified or those expecting a certain compensation will respond.

--Is this a paid position, paid "if the project is completed", or unpaid?
--What is the scale and scope of the projects? How many programmers, artists, writers, etc... will be working on the project?

Robomaniac · Post by **Robomaniac** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 1:15 pm

What type of project is it exactly also.

-- The Robomaniac

pro01 · Post by **pro01** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:18 pm

yes, saigumi, you are quite right. i also tried at gamedev.net, but without much success.

as you might have supposed the project is not paid. we should have been able to find a programmer by now if there was money involved. if we happen to get it rolling and selling, the profit will be split between the participants, of course. but at this point i will not promise anything to anyone. and since i have had experience with some past projects in which i was the participant and i saw them failed, i'd have some requirements for the one who is willing to join us. not because i am some evil character, but because if there is no control, there is no success. and the release of this title is quite important. anyway, let's move on.

as i said, the project is 3d arcade adventure. it's actually a remake of a classic commodore 64 / apple ][ game, but for now i won't disclose it's name. levels are based in mazes with rooms (the levels are in fact quite compact) where the player will encounter certain ammout of enemies and treasures. he will also need to find the key to open the door to the next maze. the gameplay is very simple. the camera is 3rd person based with additional set cameras at some predefined spots in the mazes. as of now i haven't built a site because there actually is nothing to put on it - there are yet no sketches, no models, no stuff. the only thing we have is a short internal description of the game that should be sufficient for a startup because the game is simple.

at this moment the team consists of: 1 modeller, 1 programmer, 1 musician and 1 texture artist. along with me as a script writer, game director and designer. we still lack animator and level designer, but i really believe the project can go without them for now. this team should be able to do the job without much problem because of the already mentioned simplicity of the game.

and since at this point i may sound like the consecutive wannabee to you, please check the site of another project i am working on http://tldstudios.com/gamedev/sacred. i am pretty serious about the game development as a business and i will do whatever it takes to complete all the projects i have wasted hundreds of days of my life for.

so if this sounds good to anyone, let me know at the already mentioned email. the programmer most probably will be mainly required to write tools in order the visual artists/modellers to be able to work with the engine. he sould also be friendly and responsible type of guy.

thanks.[/b]

powerpop · Post by **powerpop** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:49 am

Not to be discouraging but there are things in your post and site that make me think this game will not happen successfully (as a commercial game):

- the site you sent says that that RPG was started in may 2002 and it still doesnt show screenshots or a working demo

- your english is a in need of editing (i take it you are not a native speaker) - this effects your presentation to publishers of english language games and gamers

- you are remaking a game which is likely to be copyrighted which means you will not be able to publish it without approval

I am all for any and every independent development effort but when posting for help you have to present a realistic case.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:09 pm

well, powerpop, you may have point. i've also been looking at hundreds of 'kick ass' game ideas and i know 99.9% of them won't make it. i know it's a common disease to think your game will be one of the few that actually gets noticed. i recognize that and i agree with your scepticism. now let me get some light to the things you mentioned.

- no, there is no working demo for this project. actually there is almost no movement in it's development at all. almost. since i found it pretty stupid to try making people believe in MY ideas while not paying them for doing so and since those 14 guys who worked on the project for a few months found there are more interesting and profitable things to do, abandoning it, i decided this particular project won't move either until there is a payment secured or until i find the right people to work with me on it. for the last 20 months i never stopped developing the idea. at this moment i am working on a documentation to be represented to a publisher. there are just two other pepole involved along with me - a couple of sketch artists. and i don't give a poop about the way it may look to the public. this project won't die just because i can't find the right people. i've invested hundreds of hours in it. and will keep doing so.

- as you do mention in your second statement, yes, i am not a native english speaker. and yes, i realize the documentation will need to be polished before represented to a publisher. there are some quite good translation agencies out there and the documentation will surely go through some of them prior to being sent anywhere. i am not so amateurish as i might look at first. i am not a kid and i know what i am doing and how it has to be done well.

- i assume the game is long ago qualified as abandonware. i did my best trying to find and contact the creator but without much success. although our game won't be quite a remake in fact. but since in the US of A anyone can sue anyone for something as minor as using a 20 year old, long ago forgotten idea, i am ready to give it another try. if not, i guess the easiest part is our lawyers to meet in court and settle this matter down. as usual it all comes down to money, isn't it? and that's the worst scenario.

i believe what i said is quite realistic. what makes you think it's not?

anyway, is there anyone interested in being our leading programmer?

Mr. Blue · Post by **Mr. Blue** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:44 pm

Hello,

powerpop wrote: - your english is a in need of editing (i take it you are not a native speaker) - this effects your presentation to publishers of english language games and gamers

I don't want to be picky - but your english isn't that good either. To close this matter - it's money that speaks, if the publisher smells the money... And then, if you want something translated you can always hire a translator.

powerpop wrote: - you are remaking a game which is likely to be copyrighted which means you will not be able to publish it without approval

IANAL, but I think you are highly overestimating the power and reach of the copyright law. Second, it is the publisher that should take care of that matter.

P.S. I guess it took you less time to find the drawbacks in that project than it took you to write your post.

powerpop · Post by **powerpop** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:40 pm

for my wobbly english above - but it does matter if you are going after a publisher in the US rather than the EU and your own country

for independent projects i think the best thing is to find motivated people who will just have fun developing a game - if you really are going for a publisher (and i have done business development for game developers and sold two games to sega) you have to have (a) an amazing game design (b) and incredibly talented team and (c) get the game to demo quality where a level can be played - and thats at a minimum

so i encourage you to make a game BUT given the description you gave and your track record so far i suggest pushing the project as an independent game and attracting a developer based on that - or better yet, i suggest doing a mod of a current game rather than a complete rewrite - use the quake engine or torque where you dont have to do much coding other than scripts - see if you can pull off a demo - because getting into developing a full game engine is time consuming and expensive if you dont already know how to code or have a friend who does

Serg Nechaeff · Post by **Serg Nechaeff** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:34 am

powerpop wrote:- you are remaking a game which is likely to be copyrighted which means you will not be able to publish it without approval

nope, you can copyright the resources of your game and its title can be a registered trademark of your own, but there is no way you can copyright an idea of a game (or any program). Check out the faq if REC.GAMES.DESIGN news conference.

pro01 · Post by **pro01** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:38 pm

sorry for posting under Guest the last time, i completelly forgot this forum won't log me in by default.

powerpop, there is no doubt the documentation will be translated by a professional translator before being sent away. i can make the difference myself and i know what it takes to be a professional.

i also do know the odds of being 'indenepdent' game developer. i've spent lots of time researching and reading stuff regarding this matter. we have no track record, but that's exactly why we are going to keep our game simple. making a demo of a simple game is way easier than making one of a complex game, right?

all of the world's teenagers out there are doing mods to unreal, quake, halflife an so on. and i really don't see why we shall be doing the same, insetead of bringing our own game to life. there are lots of good free or low cost easy-to-use engines out there if that's your point. and we really want our game to have it's own identity instead of being associated with another title.

the more i think about it, the more i realize the IrrLicht is not going to be the engine of our choice because it's not an all-in-one solution which our game needs indeed.

besides, Serg is right about the fact you can't actually copyright an idea. but that's a topic of another story.

anyway, i think this discussion came to it's end. thank you all for your opinions and support and wish you all the best.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:11 pm

was searching on the web wondering if there was a time limit on copyrights & found this website

http://www.benedict.com/info/publicDoma ... Domain.asp

while it doesn't answer that question it is very clear about idears not being something you can copyright so i would double check somewhere else 1st but seems you're fine

buhatkj · Post by **buhatkj** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:31 am

hey, i know pretty well that despite my IMHO pretty good programming skills, the utter lack of people willing to give me free models(HINT HINT!!!) means its not unlikely that Fmorg may fail for no other reason than lack of original content. however, i look at it as a resume builder, i have already taught myself C++ sockets, PThreads, and basic static 3D modelling to try and make a dent in my goals for Fmorg. regardless of whether i succeed or fail, i have learned a lot or things that can be used to further my career goals in game programming or just programming in general.

i think with the person who started this thread, the same can be said, just cause you cant win, doesnt mean you shouldnt try.
-Ted

Irrlicht Engine

experienced IrrLicht programmer NEEDED

experienced IrrLicht programmer NEEDED

succceed or no, encourage the guy...