blender and irrlicht

Discuss about anything related to the Irrlicht Engine, or read announcements about any significant features or usage changes.
Murphy
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Post by Murphy »

vermeer wrote:but...irlicht has smoothing normals(VN at obj), hasn't it?

Anyway, i am way more interested in your new lightmapper ;)
I expect Irrlicht supports OBJ's VNs. But not OBJ smoothing groups, if I recall.

So yeah, I could build the VN-generating code into OCT2OBJ, but I was putting it into OBJ2MIM first -- I was making it convert OBJ smoothing groups into MIM vertex normals.
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

actually, vertex normals are better for standard workflows...IE: XSI , metasequoia, wings3d(and many exporters convert smooth groups into more common vertex normals) do support vertex nromals, as several other softwares...smooth groups is more a thing of Max, Milkshape...Poser. But Milkshape for example, will import well vertex normals. It seems VN are more frequently kept intact in conversions.

So, if irrlicht and your tools support vertex normals, that's enough. Smooth groups I'd consider secondary once the other is in.

The oct2obj smoothng normals restoring...is surely nice, but...i think problem is in fsrad...

[ a note here: even if not including vertex normals in blender exporter. Indeed, that part is weak in blender. No hard edges support. All solid or all smooth. That simple. So, imho the key need would be...force fsrad apply some autosmooth value to all faces. I'll explain: many tools have an angle threshold so that from sharper than that angle it'd create a hard edge. A crease in smoothing(i guess this can be ported with vertex normals) is not a break in the mesh, though.) .So, if users types a value for all meshes, or certain meshes, of 45º, then, all pair of faces sharper than that angle will be a hard edge. All less sharper will be treated smooth,no smoothing seam there.Looks continuous. If fsrad would apply this autosmooth value at least, as usually buildings with some curved surfaces tend to work well with 45 - 60 º of autosmooth (depends on how much 3d face "darkening" occurs in engine if too few hard edges are present) , it'd apply the VN, and *then* would calculate the lightmaps. This would allow that curved surfaces would be considered in the fsrad render, as smooth shading, not faceted, and fsrad would be usable in more serious workflows... But to me, and also as I am not a programmer, sounds a way hard task, and get into the internals of the code of another person. ]

. Reason why I would not use FSRAD in my workflows: lightmaps are generated in fsrad without taking in account smoothing normals. So, a curveds surface's lightmap is rendered faceted allways...can be seen even at Fsrad original screenshots page...in the cones and cilinders...

So, what fails in the oct workflow is not the blender exporter (quite good already) , neither the viewer (quite wysiwig), and probably neither in the loader for irrlicht. (an oct2obj+viewer(already done) would convert it all in a general useful tool for artsist, not only irrlicht related projects ) .What may be failing a bit is FSRAD itself, for the vertex normals lack, that is, previous calculation.i guess applying vertex normals with an autosmooth value over the oct, or OBJs, would not be hard (trivial with OBJs, by the artist himself, the advantages of OBJ for artwork pipeines ) But the lightmaps would allways be wrecked, no matter what u do to the mesh: the lightmap pixels have been calculated without taking in account by fsrad the hard and smooth edges of the scene.

Anyway, what I meant was that a whole environment, or a less-steps one, like your new lightmapper project, is preferrable. I use Gile[s] generally, but I very personally like more the fsrad's results(when no curved surfaces are in, that is ;) ).

been playing these days also with the lmmaker 3.8 from windsoft , whose download does not seem to exist anywhere in the net from my search results...only the temp files of 15 days that I upload...
And well, if your worries with your lightmapper is speed, man is it slow with the sample scene and radiosity activated...FSRAD was really slow too, with avergae settings. But I simply have that asumed, like when one does a Max+Final Render lightmap. Or XSI. Is rays, radiosity. It's slow. :) But is the needed price.

Anyway, most surely the tool eats a load of your free time, and I truely understand that ;) You did a load of work for irrlicht. I should find a permanent server and upload all the stuff I have from you -of the one you allowed me to post- as I think many people are yet dealing with *.3ds for scene levels! ;)

indeed...if I find the time I should put as many freeware and open source files as I can upload and distribute (if allowed) , as lots of ppl ask for them in many forums.

however, I'm allways curious on your developments. those tools were very usable in games workflows.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
xhrit
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...

Post by xhrit »

I've been trying to get stuff from blender to irrlicht since I joined this forum. Last week I broke down and installed blender 2.37 + python 2.3 on my girlfriend's windoze machine, and have been using the blender to irrlicht .x exporter mod that someone here made. I managed to export both .x files and LCSM unwraped UV maps.

vermeer, a lot ov stuff here is *really* helpful. It is always a shame when it turns up missing. email me whatever you have and I will mirror the files (at least until you can find them a good home).

http://www.xhrit.com/irrlicht
Core2Duo E8400 3.0ghz - 2048mb DDR2 800 - geForce 9600 - Slackware12.1

Word-image-symbol programming limits, controls, and imprisons the individual.
Smash the control images, smash the control machine.
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

Thanks a zillion, xhrit. (btw, cool avatar :) )


Well, I'm more looking for a permanent place(and not to abuse more of people generousity) to upload the so much asked for(by all indies everywhere) files.....looks like Baal's patient keeping the files there has been infinite almost. They are still there!

I have very little time, but should find some moment to put up a geocities site or something...to do it for once and ever...

But I will consider your offering if I really don't have time for that....

Some recommendations anyone on free websites, even with crappy adds like geocities (no loads of pop ups, please) that have solid month transfer....for free?
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

what is more, bad points of geocities? real bandwith limit, etc?

I can leave with the huge banner, is only to put those files there for download permanently and even dump some of my loooong thread explanations there.(but that part to be done more slowly)
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
afecelis
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Post by afecelis »

Hey Vermeer! Have you tried Filefront? It offers some nice web space for pics, files and even a blog. And it's all game-related stuff.

http://www.filefront.com/

whoa! that just sounded like the "spammiest" line I've ever sent you! :wink:
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

hehe

no, it was actually good help...But i think I'll prefer at the end a site.. so I can mount a basic htm.

I'll do, definitely. Have registered a site and it's up...Even more, I may put up two...dunno if it's allowed/well seen to make like mirrors...not exactly mirrors, but same site, just in two places. For in case one stop existing, and also as the ones having loads of bandwith , have tiny space, and all the way opposite , too... So I can make not full anouncing of both in all places... so they don't get huge load...does sounds is good for them, but dunno if is a well seen practice...
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
Pazystamo
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Post by Pazystamo »

Try http://byethost.com/freeplans.php It has nice plans (250mb space and 20gb bandwith). But adds small text add on every page top and has 2mb file size limit. But it has nice tools and help :)
My project in forum- ATMOsphere - new dynamic sky dome for Irrlicht
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Post by ... »

heh. The only reason I offer is it would be no effort on my part. I made a geocitys clone a while back. It is not complex in the slightest, but is is real easy.

http://www.xhrit.com/Naisoft/
Murphy
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Post by Murphy »

vermeer wrote:So, if irrlicht and your tools support vertex normals, that's enough. Smooth groups I'd consider secondary once the other is in.

The oct2obj smoothng normals restoring...is surely nice, but...i think problem is in fsrad...
Yes, indeed. No way to make smoothing work with FSRad. But adding autosmoothing/creasing support to my tools would let you get some VNs into Irrlicht more easily under a number of circumstances... just not lightmapped. :) (For example, exporting from Blender and getting standard auto-smooth/crease.)


Anyway, yeah. The lightmapper. Hopefully this summer...
vermeer
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Post by vermeer »

@pazystamo
thank you. I did had saw it the other day for first time, but I had the suspiction that would be one of those fast come fast go servers that ask you for posts in forums an dthen dissapear or worse...But reading other stuff, got me to the conclussion it was really a good place. Yet though I have a prob with 2mb files limit. Some I'll hang are of 5 or 6 megs.
Yet though,I'll keep an eye on it. I have already one in other place, but I may have one mirror for downtimes, etc.


@xhrit

the problem is I have calculated some "curious" bandwidth use...So...as I'll upload a lot of files, with explanations of what does each, in the htm pages.
I may ask for help if I have no luck with a free, huge bandwith server...Besides, I plan for using for long, long time. And have ease forupdate, etc.

@murphy
no probs, then , I'll be recommending lmmaker 3.8 till your lightmapper comes...;)
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
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