I modelled, textured and animated a giraffe. It took me bout four days. I thought about taking some "shortcuts" next time. I didn't cause it doesn't feel completely right. I wonder how commercial modellers think as they always on a tight time scale. And what about juridicial aspects? What exactly makes a new model unique?
Example: Is it okay to take an existing (copyrighted) model and use a blank texture to paint markers for the vertices of a completely new mesh on it? This way i get a nice quad-based mesh which i uvmap, texture, rig and animate myself. I use the geometrical dimensions not the original geometry of the copyrighted mesh and refine them in addition. Better than to model from pictures.
Where is the juridicial limit for "smart" approaches like this?
Derivative work / copyright
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rogerborg
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Very interesting question.
The legal advice that my current employer has received is that if you start with an original work and modify it, then you've created a derivative work, which is a clear infringement, no matter how substantive the transformation. It's cleaner if you use it as a reference source, and create new content starting from a clean sheet, and with a clear element of interpretation involved (i.e. no digital equivelant of "tracing"). Even then, you may have "distinctive likeness" issues if the original is being used as a trade mark (registered or otherwise).
However, I don't know what (if any) case law support that. I do know that it's unlikely to become an issue unless you sell the results, but it's not impossible. Google for "knitting patterns copyright" to see how even the most innocuous seeming things can attract the attention and wrath of rights owners and their lawyers.
So I guess the simple answer to your question is that there's no simple answer, and you'll have to take your own decisions regarding ethics and risk.
The legal advice that my current employer has received is that if you start with an original work and modify it, then you've created a derivative work, which is a clear infringement, no matter how substantive the transformation. It's cleaner if you use it as a reference source, and create new content starting from a clean sheet, and with a clear element of interpretation involved (i.e. no digital equivelant of "tracing"). Even then, you may have "distinctive likeness" issues if the original is being used as a trade mark (registered or otherwise).
However, I don't know what (if any) case law support that. I do know that it's unlikely to become an issue unless you sell the results, but it's not impossible. Google for "knitting patterns copyright" to see how even the most innocuous seeming things can attract the attention and wrath of rights owners and their lawyers.
So I guess the simple answer to your question is that there's no simple answer, and you'll have to take your own decisions regarding ethics and risk.
well...
a design is a design. It can be also registered.
SO even doing so, if a registered is recognized in its shape and volume, you can have issues.But also from a drawing.
It a lot depends on what and how is registered by the author of original piece.
I dont use refs unless required by a boss, tho
And I really dislike the frankenstein way of modelling...and when in a team...one can loose a lot of time cleaning a bad mesh...
a design is a design. It can be also registered.
SO even doing so, if a registered is recognized in its shape and volume, you can have issues.But also from a drawing.
It a lot depends on what and how is registered by the author of original piece.
I dont use refs unless required by a boss, tho
And I really dislike the frankenstein way of modelling...and when in a team...one can loose a lot of time cleaning a bad mesh...
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
Hi Vermeer, i guess with registered you mean characters like Mario64, Max Payne, Gordon Freeman or dear Lara Croft. I am pretty sure that could get the artists in trouble.
But i rather thought of generic or not (is it registered what i mean here?) so wellknown models which have to look somehow alike. A giraffe has to look like a giraffe and an gas station like a gas station. When you model something from reality you underlie pretty tight constraints. With architectural models i think it would even be possible that you have quite a few vertices which seem in fact alike even independently modelled. Ex.: Pyramides of Giza or the EIffel tower etc..
But i rather thought of generic or not (is it registered what i mean here?) so wellknown models which have to look somehow alike. A giraffe has to look like a giraffe and an gas station like a gas station. When you model something from reality you underlie pretty tight constraints. With architectural models i think it would even be possible that you have quite a few vertices which seem in fact alike even independently modelled. Ex.: Pyramides of Giza or the EIffel tower etc..
captain copyright's legal minefield
strictly speaking, if you model an exact replica of a building, it depends on how old that building is and whether the plans are in the public domain or not, and this varies from from nation to nation depending on the legal definition of 'derivative work' and that country's 'fair use' clauses. for example, in germany it's okay to model a building because it's in public view, while 'fair use' laws might make it legal in america. courts usually uphold the letter rather than the spirit of copyright law, so basically you're going to consult a lawyer from every country which you plan to publish in, and to know the history of every piece of media and the things they were derived from.
this all sounds pretty rediculous, but imo so is the notion of 'intellectual property' in the first place.
this all sounds pretty rediculous, but imo so is the notion of 'intellectual property' in the first place.
Actually....All the above imo is certain...
In a practical view, tho... Well...if you do that of model using a model of reference...Consider some facts...Yep, modelling a Mario would be trouble full, but even modelling from a model of a pretty unknown artist, which has copyrighted not only his model, but also his design...Well, an artist can recognize his/her designs really easily, even derivatives well disguised.
Wether it'd be enough to earn the thing in courts...well, or wetehr it actually would reach that far...It depends on the money.
I strongly doubt the usual indy thing may have a prob, but ppl often is to direct making the next mario clone, as even fan ppl has seen their site put down.
If the derivative works is much subtle...whenever you earn a coin, and specially if the original author didnt, you can be sued... if he recognize it..which is not that hard (i've recognized derivatives of some model of mine easily)
Copyright is automatic, no need to go and register, since some time ago.
You can register a trade mark or something, to make the thing more protected and in more ways. Or use copyleft.
As for your purpose...specially for learning, I wouldnt ever worry... I learned doing all from mind, rather than using refs. Tho to make accurate and good hi res accurate model, you actually need refs drawings...
As last resource, you can buy a 3d scanner Some of them are pointing devices thata allow pointing over verts in a drawn over wires.....like topolgy mesh 3d software feature... Much mor euseful than a cloud of points which usually gives a 3d lasser scanner...
But yep, and usually derivative works is something usually avoided by many companies...for play safe....in game companie sis very usual to play frankenstein, starting from models done by company workers in other projects, etc....
I've see that done, but avoided as I could.
And...most importantly...do you reeeally do trust other artist accurateness in modelling ?He'll fail surely, unless used good references, and even so, u gotta know your stuff... At least you know well ur own errors, and how they came...
I learnt with no refs, besides, not that there are many very easily available...For cars, yes, thousands of good blueprints...
In a practical view, tho... Well...if you do that of model using a model of reference...Consider some facts...Yep, modelling a Mario would be trouble full, but even modelling from a model of a pretty unknown artist, which has copyrighted not only his model, but also his design...Well, an artist can recognize his/her designs really easily, even derivatives well disguised.
Wether it'd be enough to earn the thing in courts...well, or wetehr it actually would reach that far...It depends on the money.
I strongly doubt the usual indy thing may have a prob, but ppl often is to direct making the next mario clone, as even fan ppl has seen their site put down.
If the derivative works is much subtle...whenever you earn a coin, and specially if the original author didnt, you can be sued... if he recognize it..which is not that hard (i've recognized derivatives of some model of mine easily)
Copyright is automatic, no need to go and register, since some time ago.
You can register a trade mark or something, to make the thing more protected and in more ways. Or use copyleft.
As for your purpose...specially for learning, I wouldnt ever worry... I learned doing all from mind, rather than using refs. Tho to make accurate and good hi res accurate model, you actually need refs drawings...
As last resource, you can buy a 3d scanner
Some of them are pointing devices thata allow pointing over verts in a drawn over wires.....like topolgy mesh 3d software feature... Much mor euseful than a cloud of points which usually gives a 3d lasser scanner...But yep, and usually derivative works is something usually avoided by many companies...for play safe....in game companie sis very usual to play frankenstein, starting from models done by company workers in other projects, etc....
I've see that done, but avoided as I could.
And...most importantly...do you reeeally do trust other artist accurateness in modelling ?He'll fail surely, unless used good references, and even so, u gotta know your stuff... At least you know well ur own errors, and how they came...
I learnt with no refs, besides, not that there are many very easily available...For cars, yes, thousands of good blueprints...
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
Why you are so harsh, that is a forum and not a battlefield, better sharpen your sword and not your tongue. Vermeer simply expressed his legitimate opinion. These are all opinions on this site:
1. As already said national laws differ considerably
2. If the law is really that rigid, then go and model anything which has not been modelled before, but exists in the real world or has existed. It's very likely that someone else will model that in the future. Do it industrially and sue the ass out of the poor and get rich. Can't be true!
3. If it is true we better stop modelling anything from the real world
4. I rather meant if there are guidelines where the "boarder from grey to black" is, that this
is not the same everywhere is clear as i said. So what i wanted are opinions.
5. Please continue the discussion
1. As already said national laws differ considerably
2. If the law is really that rigid, then go and model anything which has not been modelled before, but exists in the real world or has existed. It's very likely that someone else will model that in the future. Do it industrially and sue the ass out of the poor and get rich. Can't be true!
3. If it is true we better stop modelling anything from the real world
4. I rather meant if there are guidelines where the "boarder from grey to black" is, that this
is not the same everywhere is clear as i said. So what i wanted are opinions.
5. Please continue the discussion