Gmax VT's out!

[afecelis]

sorry Nitro, but shaders are part of the Quake engine's core, and depend directly on the shader scripts created for such purpose so the short answer is no. That's why I mentioned that in order to simulate a skylight I added an omni light at a very high position with a very high emitting value, pretty similar to how it was done in the old Q2 skool days, he he hehe .

I just wrote some tuts on how to create a map file without using Radiant and compiling a basic bsp with lightmaps with an external frontend and Q3map2 in order to get a level up and running in Irrlicht.

Perhaps if a Q3 shader reader was created there would be a chance, but if even Irrlicht shaders aren't fully implemented, Imagine how complicated it may get trying to get other people's shaders to work.

thnx for the comments!!! try to keep it simple. Build your level with this method and and add extra stuff like shaders using Irrlicht's native shaders. (although I know what you want is sky shaders).

[ZDimitor]

Cool stuff, man! Downloading immediately! Can't wait to look out.

[afecelis]

whoa! Dimitri, thnx for the comment. I'm honored!!!!

glad you find it useful.

[vermeer]

Congratulations (y ahora si que te has ganado un jamópn serrano )

It looks like a load of work you did there


personally, as I'm a bit lazy about level editing (always focused in characters) I tend to prefer to just have a modeller let me do no limits x mesh, and export with 2 uv channels and lightmap...

I proposed Jox long ago to make an x level and load its 2 uv channels and tga lightmap generated in that great Giles, but I allways have something else pending more urgent...

x+2 uv channels+ highend generated package imho, is the powerful way to go, and I hope that arrives some day to irrlicht.

But is is a very different animal, and it was something I requested/asked for people long ago...GMAX is ...free! and with such a load of power.

You have snapping, a lot of coords rlated features, you can a very professional map...

I just don't know to all extents the BSP limitations, "all geometry must be convex " is one I knew already, though.

What you are providing is a 100% free way to produce quite professional levels, so, imho, huge congrats....

I think this is a total need to add to the FAQ sticky thread. These things if not get lost for newbs later on....

[afecelis]

whoa again!!! Vermeer, I must also say I feel honored as well (y vieras el jamon de pierna que me he ganao y que tengo colgando en mi sala tio!!!! ), having those comments coming from you.


yup, it was a bunch of work, but it was fun and I had some spare time on saturday so I decided to give it a go; and it was also something I had running in my head since long time ago. I just didn't know a proper way to put everything together so finally when I found this frontend a ray of light came from space and touched my brain cells stimulating the quantum flux of knowledge, hehehehehe Well, this is how I decided to replicate Q3's folder structure to get things working ok.

And yup, you're right, Gmax's potential is huge and if you play by the rules you can get some interesting stuff created for your bsp levels. Limitations? the convex geometry thingie, and not getting UV mapping straight from the material editor. Only daring level editing buffs who are really familiar with the map format may be able to open it and add tiling properties via text. Or you can use very large textures 512x512,1024x1024 very tiles so when you apply and load them everything appears more or less properly tiled.

Another thing I tried was loading the generated map from Gmax into Gtkradiant and they show up exactly the same. The interesting thing is that after saving the map in Radiant, the map file immediately changes and gets customized according to their standards. So another good way of learning is to compare the 2 maps (ours,-Radiant's) side by side and grab some ideas, for instance: apply tiling properties to a texture and then check how things changed in the map file (in text mode).

Finally another limitation is the lack of shaders (Q3 shaders) for the reasons we all know.

But I am convinced it definitely offers another alternative for people to create levels. oh yes Vermeer!!! please add it to your tools links!!

cheers!!!

que güeno se esta poniendo esto!

[Nitroman]

thanks for the reply!

Ok, that explain why I wasn't able to use shaders.... I thought that shaders were compiled with the map to create the lightmap (because there are q3map2 specific shaders, so it confused me).

[afecelis]

If it's done thru Radiant it works since Radiant looks for the shaderslist.txt file in which all of Q3 shaders are referenced (including skyboxes), but since we're only messing with the maps, textures and env folder we only use the basic features. But I was checking a Q3map2 manual yesterday and since it's able to compile shaders perhaps it's only a matter of also replicating the scripts folder and copy some scripts there to test and tweak the map file a bit. Gonna check a Q3 map file with shaders and compare the code.

let me dig into it and I'll let you know if I succeed. Sorry, I was missing your point a bit, I thought you wanted to get Q3's animated shaders to work in Irlciht, but a skybox ilumination may be possible.

[bal]

x+2 uv channels+ highend generated package imho, is the powerful way to go, and I hope that arrives some day to irrlicht.

You're right. Maybe we should stop working on those alternatives for lightmapping and focus on integrating 2 uv channel support for .x meshes in Irrlicht. Until then we can still keep finding more alternatives .

[vermeer]

Imho is the way to go...it has not these limits, and artists that come anew to irrllitch but have his 3d package knowledge, will be able to start producing lightmaps asigned to x files way quicker....

But as you say, and Aefecielis knows, in the meantime, it's nice to have several options. Seems like each one prefer to stick to a different method.

besides, AF way is cool as it connects Gmax with irrlicht for level making, which is the free way; we have to consider that majority of ppl don't have the bucks...

(giles is only 40$, anyway, but it does not produce 2 uv channels files...that is produced : with giles+Ultimate unwrap, or with Max 6 and Panda exporter (for example))

I'm going to add the link to FAQ sticky(lightmaps section, I think, to keep it more or less ordered in blocks...), as is really a good set of tutorials what Af has mounted here...

(me parece que no hay jamón por aquí...me conformaré con una pizza... )

[vermeer]

well, there's not actually a need to keep the sticky in blocks, as others can't edit my posts...yet though, I'll do so with mines, so my huge load of posts there, keep ordered....

[vermeer]

Added!

Both in sticky faq and sticky tools...

as It's a tutorial, but also a tool to add, is needed to be remarked that Gmax now is also a tool for levels for irrlicht, as it was already for animation (gmax->md3->irrlicht)

[firefly2442]

Does Gmax have any limitations on how it can be used in terms of creating content and such? Looks great.

[afecelis]

update:
when creating your materials in Gmax, instead of typing a name for it like "wall" or "brick" type the path to the bitmap instead, like "Irrq3/Irrq302" (without the quotes). This way, when you export your map file, material paths are ready and there's no need to change them by hand!!!!

Now I'm looking for a way to insert a player start and get it reflected in the map file.

Many many thnx for all the comments and support!!! Vermeer thnx for including it in your stuff.

@Firefly: about the legal stuff, well Gmax was released for free to be used with existing Commercial game engines as a level editor to create free stuff for it, so any content you create for it would be bound by the game's legal restrictions. In this particular case, I wouldn't know how it may apply since we are using it to develop stuff for a free engine and without using things from another engine. The only thing would be the use of Q3map2, but according to their site they got nothing to do with ID, check link:
http://www.shaderlab.com/q3map2/2.5/readme.txt

cheers!

[afecelis]

Just discovered that the normal flipped box textured with "caulk" or "nodraw" is not necesary to get a skybox. The lack of it is interpreted by irrlicht as the place to locate the skybox defined in your code. You'll geta "leak" warning messgae when using the frontend but that won't stop it from creating the lightmapped bsp; besides, I was getting the same error with the flipped box as skybox. I opened the exported map in Radiant and the flipped box didn't show up, so that's why a leak is reported. But for Irrlicht it's perfect in order to get a skybox to work.

I also tried to create 6 brushes for the skybox and texture them with caulk; the leak problem was solved but then no skybox was displayed; the caulk texture was displayed.

so bottom line, if you're planning to use skyboxes don't worry about leaving open spaces or getting a leak error as long as your bsp is created. Just make sure your lightmaps are properly baked.

cheers!

[vermeer]

"Does Gmax have any limitations on how it can be used in terms of creating content and such? Looks great."

Nope. The limits are already in the package. Indeed, it took me months to see the definite posted letters from discreet replying to this matter, other posts from id staff in gmax forums, etc.

So, what it has been said (and matches quite well that non very clear eula) is that...there is no limit in the use of what u output LEGALLY out of gmax.

That is, what u can't do is use a hack to break Gmax limitations. But for example, do use the mojo.gamxsupport.com md3 plugin (which is NOT Id's Tempest plugin!!...that other is limited to non comercial, and has technical problems ) for exporting your character animations, is perfectly legal as far as I'm concerned, and u could use the exports in comercial projects.

For free projects, I don0t see a problem in using AF workflow. But for comercial, not, but not because of Gmax, but because of Ydnar's BSP thingy...I also got foolished by that readme but inthe forums, I read same Ydnar say the compiler was based in Id's tool, so, go guess...I wouldn't risk it... Perhaps he put that in the readme just to avoid extra hassle of emails to the company. U can allways go to Ydnar's forums, do a search where Ydnar speaks about that....should not be hard to find....

Different thing would be using the source forge q3 bsp compiler...but already AF tried that one at first...and he had no luck. That one, stopped -it seems- in 2003 in its 0.3 version, is probably not ended, and I never knew if it is already in an usable state..perhaps it is.

I did not read the tuts (my modem is slow, and actually my workflow with engines is giles->ultimate unwrap->x -> whatever the engine) ..so I dunno if tehre's some point where AF was a bad boy (chico malo ) and broke the rules...I suspect he didn't

For free projects, i wouldn't worry, actually.

For example, it has been quite common to break a gmax limitation. That is -while a bit hard to win/prove in a legal fight- avoiding gmax maxscript listener limitation. Gmax is crippled in export; it only export by the gamepaks. Gamepaks are deved by companies that bought an expensive -Ithink- sdk, so they can do a very customized plugin to export.

The game customizing comunity, and MODs ways -which largely have used gmax both for char anim and level design- have used largely maxscript listener (a window where is dumped the scene in ascii text) using home made maxscripts... As there's a really tiny number of lines allowed, some developed a win32 call based app to overcome that. Others have a capturing window text solution...

Well, that, with lawyers and that, could be considered a hack, there are lines in eula that can be clearly considered against that...

If u export stuff in any other way, great then...

I don't know how AF is doing, and now that I think, I'm curious...
perhaps he yet exported very few polies....

So, I don't know..something I roughly read in an af post, about yafray export...hmm...comunity is allways a clever beast...simply brilliant...Gmax has no render, and they invent a way to export to one of the best Global Illumination open source renderers...yafray... I dunno if I read that af is using a similar way to export...