Page 7 of 9
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:39 am
by StickyBit
omar shaaban wrote:
first i prove that god exists (if u read my posts)
I wish you all a happy day - now that we know that Omar´s god exists.
Have a nice day everyone, and don´t forget
The 10 commandments.
answer
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:22 pm
by Beshr
when i first read what "omar shaaban" wrote i thought that it was a bad idea, but now i don't know i don't think that it's sooooo bad! but still i don't like to talk religiously (with out) a religious background (even though i'm a moslem) i think that some of those (who call them self moslem but in fact they are nothing more than some money hunters or something, we can't count them form the Islamic religion) have some bad doings.
it's just what i think.
and for those of you who want to learn Arabic, my brother is creating a podcast for teaching Arabic, it's pretty good, give it a look
http://thearabicpodclass.blogspot.com
Re: answer
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:14 pm
by roxaz
thank you, it will be very useful for me
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:26 pm
by randomMesh
In short: God doesn't exist in reality.
He/she/it only exists in people's minds.
Humans created god, not the other way round.
Accept it or not. Everyone is free to choose what he belives, fortunately.
Unfortunately, there are exceptions.
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:17 pm
by TheRLG
I just took a trip to the local Mosque for a Humanities course. Very great explanations were given for all sorts of questions like the ones raised by you guys. It was interesting that Muslims, when giving an explanation of their faith, gave a nearly exact explanation of my faith as a Christian. I think it's important to note that we are not all that different and that it is okay to have different beliefs, as long as you don't kill somebody for not accepting yours. I also like how, when asked about radicals/fundamentalists, they stated that killing is always a sin and is an extremely bad thing to do. They also said that it was not the religion, but instead culture/politics/environment, that influences the "radical fundamentalists" to do such violent deeds. It was a very interesting discussion.
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:31 am
by nixx
so omar never show up again?
I dont like the way s/he talked, it sounds like only moslems go to heaven.
and I was really shocked that there is such a thread in this API forum.
I'm catholic, and live in a country whose people are mostly moslem. That is Indonesia. I have many moslem friends, and its ok. We have fun together, even we form a band. So i can say that islam is not terrorist. Well some people are, but generalization is bad in this case.
I dont have agnostic / atheist friends. But I think they (agnosticism & atheism) don't matter. For me, the most important thing is being good to others. Next is having good behaviour. I wonder if they sound the same
.
About God. Who knows that such a deity thing exists? I don't know too, but I do believe that there is something beyond this universe. I think its not good to talk about God's existence. It will bring you nowhere. Useless.
I am not a good catholic though
. But there are many good philosophies if you study religion. I try to follow philosophies.
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:35 am
by USE.IRR
God exist
God created the world
God created Adam
God gives the truth to Adam
Adam is people father
Adam is a prophet
Adam died
:HISTORY
After years ... the truth is forgotten
People understand the world by there minds (philosophy)
People became wrong
God send prophet
God gives him the truth
IF last prophet sent GOTO END
GOTO HISTORY
:END
//truth: there is a god, you have to beleive in him
//last prophet: islam prophet
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:01 pm
by belfegor
There is no god.
It is pushed into your brain early when you are still a baby.
And it make sense, when you live in religios family you can here word
"god " about 10 times a day (at least).
It is even in music, television...
Beleive what you whant to believe. There is no point to prove that someone is
wrong (you are only going to heart his/hers ego and not change his beliefes).
About wars/terrorist, all nations are in some way that, all they beleive is money not in some made up god.
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:23 pm
by catron
now i dont want to start a fight, believe what you want! but i would have to say some sort of god exists because some members of my family have experienced him in a very real way. My dad is now christian thanks to a similar occurance that saved his life. But again, your choices are up to you, and i have experienced my god in a very real way.
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:21 pm
by etcaptor
Strange discussion about god
The dark does not exist - it's just missing light
Try it with some Irrlicht level
Ok, the main problem is that some groups of peoples uses religion for manipulation. Another groups of peoples uses the money for manipulation.
Well, when people like these works together, every simple man risks to fall in their traps.
So, for me this is problem related with realization of every person. This is our personally work.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:07 am
by Nodtveidt
Religion is a tool. End of story.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:19 pm
by BlindSide
etcaptor wrote:Strange discussion about god
The dark does not exist - it's just missing light
Try it with some Irrlicht level
Hahaha.
Btw I am a muslim too and I feel the racism has died down alot since 2002/2003. But apparently here in NZ all the mosques across the country got tagged with "Rest in peace London". Like New Zealanders had anything to do with it..
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:37 am
by uninvolved
dwmitch wrote:To answer the original post, do I think Muslims are terrorists?
In discussion I take on the infuriating side depending on who I talk to.
I have nothing against Muslims for the most part. I was very polite to the Muslim couple who tried to convert me after I changed their tire for them (they didn't have a jack, and even though he said I didn't have to I decided to change it for them since I'd have to wait around for my jack anyway). I didn't insult their religion or say anything about how they're the bastard half-brothers of the Chosen People.
I just listened, when they finished I asked if they wanted me to follow behind them (they were on a donut, there was no place open to get a tire, and I don't even trust those things for two miles), and when they said "no thank you" I told them the cheapest place to get a good tire the next morning (there were cheaper places, but their tires are crap).
However, there was also a Muslim who engaged me when he found out I was a Christian. He actually started blaming me for the Crusades. Of course, being combative by nature, I told my co-worker, loud enough for the man to hear, to check his car for explosives.
So do I believe that Muslims are terrorists? No. I'm no more suspicious of a Muslim than I am anyone else (even though I'm suspicious of everyone as whenever I get around the general public I get the feeling that I'm going to get a beating).
Would I treat you as a terrorist in person? Don't try to tie me to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the Catholic priest child molestation scandal, Andrea Yates, David Koresh, etc. and I won't try to tie you to the World Trade Center.
TheRLG, Jesus most likely called God "Father." While I spend most of my time in Proverbs and the Sermon on the Mount and not as much as I should in other areas, as far as I understand the Sanhiedran wanted Christ crucified for blasphemy, one of those blasphemies being that he claimed to be the Son of God.
Saturn, if you can answer where matter came from you'll be on your way to understanding the "who created God" conundrum. I learned in school that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed. Unless recent discoveries have dispelled that notion (I was in 8th grade when I learned that, so it's been about twelve years) then matter and energy had to have always existed. So how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient being? And how do we know that the change in matter and energy to the form we know now destroyed this being?
Monkeycracks, how do you explain those who grew up in homes hostile towards religion converting?
My senior year we had an exchange student from New Zealand. Her parents were atheists, her grandparents were atheists, and she was an atheist. On top of that, her host family was so fanatical in their atheism that they were constantly trying to make the churches in their town inaccessible. Every t-shirt she wore was in insult to the God of Abraham, any time we'd pass a church on the bus she'd try to throw some trash onto the property if the driver wasn't paying attention, and if she sneezed and you said "God bless you" she'd go into a long rant that ended up with her giving you the finger.
Knowing her host family and what she told me of her upbringing, what you said could be applied to her atheism. However, one day she did a complete 180. Actually requested a Bible from my pastor's daughter, started reading it, and converted. No one had tried to convert her, either. She told me that she was just curious, wanted to see what it said, then one thing led to another. Of course, her host family kicked her out and she didn't have a home to return to in New Zealand.
So how can you explain a woman growing up not only to disbelieve, but despise religion turn into a devoted follower of Christ without having had the teachings shoved down her throat?
There's more to it than upbringing, my friend.
...
dwmitch wrote:However, there was also a Muslim who engaged me when he found out I was a Christian. He actually started blaming me for the Crusades. Of course, being combative by nature, I told my co-worker, loud enough for the man to hear, to check his car for explosives.
... If he had been a world leader. Someone would have sent some missiles. See where this nonsense leads you?
dwmithc wrote:Saturn, if you can answer where matter came from you'll be on your way to understanding the "who created God" conundrum. I learned in school that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed. Unless recent discoveries have dispelled that notion (I was in 8th grade when I learned that, so it's been about twelve years) then matter and energy had to have always existed. So how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient being? And how do we know that the change in matter and energy to the form we know now destroyed this being?
So... how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient magical invisible unicorn?
See... I can make poop up too.
Besides.
E=MC^2, if god is all powerful. We must raise E to infinity. since C is constant we must raise mass(M) to infinity. This is not what is observed. Besides, to interact with us he must be inside this universe. If he is connected to everything, he would render time nonexistent. So if god existed, he only existed once, to create the universe. then he was destroyed.
God cannot exist within space/time. It is illogical. Illogical as a magical invisible unicorn existing inside this space/time and/or this universe.
So god could exist outside of space/time, which to our current knowledge, points to nothing.
And suppose there is something outside of space/time... So? That makes god irrelevant. He can't see us, he can't interact with us. etc.
So god cannot exist in this universe, totally illogical.
God could exist outside of space/time as could anything you imagine, but then, why does it matter?
So how can you explain a woman growing up not only to disbelieve, but despise religion turn into a devoted follower of Christ without having had the teachings shoved down her throat?
I knew a devout christian. Went to school and received a doctorate in theology. Wrote several books on the evidence for jesus.
...
Became an atheist in his forties.
There must be some weird abstract force that got a hold of him. I'm guessing it wasn't Jesus. Maybe... I dunno... Reason?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:41 am
by uninvolved
Nodtveidt wrote:Religion is a tool. End of story.
Agreed. I think we should continue this thread.
I respect people of faith. Mainly because they choose not to follow their dogma consistently. Because if they did, the world would be a hell-of-a-lot more savage. Personally, I wouldn't want to live in a world like that.
Thank goodness for the first amendment. That's all I have to say.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:34 pm
by Dorth
Wow, never saw someone misunderstand both physics and metaphysics concepts so bad, uninvolved.
Before going further, let's just clean this up. A being that would be metaphysical would be outside of at least one aspect of Physics, most likely a rule. Could be more than one too. Second, while E=MC^2 is a very nice tool that has stood up to now, it is nothing but a theory unless absolute knowledge is attained and thus all possible exceptions are disproved (which btw, would make you omniscient). A bit why Einstein had so much trouble with the quantic field, it annoyed him the idea of randomness. Many theory includes way in which the conservation theory can be bent, if not broken. You have wormhole, pocket Universes, the quite unpopular string theory, the ever popular though likely ridiculous theory of perpetual motion or gain of momentum by use of radio wave and magnetic field, the current theory of the Universe stating multiple dimensions for this verse (13 in the last count if I'm not mistaking, which I might), etc. Any or all of those would be PHYSICAL ways of bending/breaking the "rule". That and the tearing of the Universe itself if it was to take too much expansion and actually had a stretch limit.
But anyway, by concept, God as seen by Christians, Jews and Muslims is a metaphysical being, as I said, as a soul would be, angels, and the like. That would mean they do not abide by the same rule that govern the Universe (pre-dating it, manipulating it, parallel existence and such). Thus no amount of physics can prove or disprove God. They are basically 2 spheres and while metaphysic could in theory open all doors of physics, the physic can only at best point it's own limitation and hint toward something more. Which might be either a more complete understanding and thus more physics or something that cannot be put into a rule, thus metaphysic. Don't try and discuss this unless you've spent years in theology, science and philosophy, you'd just be under par with all those that have tried before you. I doubt there is a key, but if there is one, either way, it'll not be found like this.