Todays religions

[omar shaaban]

I am a Moslem and i want to see what do u think about Islam and what happens in Iraq and Palestine and the "11 September "

In my opinion When i see millions of Moslems dying in Palestine and iraq and then when 1 or 2 or even 100 isreal or american solder die they say Moslems are terrorists

[CuteAlien]

I just think religions suck in general... they divide people for reasons that don't even exist.

[TheRLG]

The real problem is that these attacks and terrorism have nothing to do with religion.. it's all about politics. Unfortunately, people are still being taught that it has to do with religion.

But this is the way it's gone for centuries past. Nowhere in the Bible or Jesus' teachings did it say "Please go kill people unless they become Christian." In fact, there was no "Christianity" in the Bible or Jesus' teachings. I still chuckle when I find people who think that Jesus called God "God," when he most likely called him "Allah."

And in the same way, it doesn't say in the Qu'ran that you should kill all the "infidels" and start jihads with anyone that hates you. Mohammed preached tolerance and that God would be the only judge of all people, just like Jesus said.

Unfortunately for us, people always corrupt religions.

Are Muslims terrorists? No.

Are there muslim terrorists? Yes.
Are there Christian terrorists? Yes.
Are there Hindu terrorists? Yes.
Are there pagan terrorists? Yes.
Are there buddhist terrorists? ....Hmmm, no.

[roxaz]

i dont think that moslems are terrorists. actualy i would like to meet some moslem ppl. friend said that they are very friendly and nice. as im very curious i would like to hear about the religion and culture. im learning arabic now (at home only by myself). great language i think that moslems and all their culture are charming in the future i hope ill visit Iraq

[Luben]

I dont think bad of muslims. In general, religious people are often a little nicer than others.
But i do think that fundamentalists, fanatics, extremists and anyone who'd consider hurting someone because of their belief, faith or origin is a total craphole.
The main blame for the (terrorist==muslimist) is to be put on mainstream media, for only showing the rotten tip of the iceberg. But since when do we hear about good news on the news?
Ah, right, we never did. Morals just isn't cool anymore.

Regarding 9/11, i think it was stupid, but the response turned out to be even more stupid.

[roxaz]

The real problem is that these attacks and terrorism have nothing to do with religion.. it's all about politics. Unfortunately, people are still being taught that it has to do with religion.

But this is the way it's gone for centuries past. Nowhere in the Bible or Jesus' teachings did it say "Please go kill people unless they become Christian." In fact, there was no "Christianity" in the Bible or Jesus' teachings. I still chuckle when I find people who think that Jesus called God "God," when he most likely called him "Allah."

And in the same way, it doesn't say in the Qu'ran that you should kill all the "infidels" and start jihads with anyone that hates you. Mohammed preached tolerance and that God would be the only judge of all people, just like Jesus said.

Unfortunately for us, people always corrupt religions.

Are Muslims terrorists? No.

Are there muslim terrorists? Yes.
Are there Christian terrorists? Yes.
Are there Hindu terrorists? Yes.
Are there pagan terrorists? Yes.
Are there buddhist terrorists? ....Hmmm, no.

Actualy as far as i know Koran says something like that if you kill your enemy you go to heaven. You know arabic soldiers were very brave in the past days (Alexander VS Saladin war). They bealived that if thet die in battle they will go to heaven. Muslims look like fanatics for me. I dont bealive in any god myself, christian god looks for me very old-fashioned, i dont know others very well that i could bealive...

[Saturn]

omar shaaban, so I was created by someone? Else than my parents that is? Who then created the creator? This argument leads to an infinite regression and is useless.

I see it like CuteAlien, Religion is an inhuman device that has the potential to let good people commit evil deeds. It is pointless and prevents people from respecting each other.

omar shaaban, you are pretty gullible. There is no evidence based reason to believe anything the Koran says to be the word of (some) god (mediated or not). You only believe this to be true, because you have been told by people around you. You wouldn't believe any of this if you were born elsewhere. You don't believe all this, because you chose too, but because you have been made to believe by people who have been made to believe and so on. The sick religious treadmill...

Have some balls and at least think about it. And when you're at it, also think about how useful it is to do death-arithmetics. What is the current exchange rate between arabic and US lives? 1:10? 10:1? Does this make any sense? Is it worth to kill other people to "revenge" for other life? When will it end. Kill, kill, kill... Your position is pathetic and makes me sick. Think before you write, kiddo!

I am the last to absolve Israel from blame, but Palestines are not exactly helpful to finally solve the conflict either. And I guess it is save to say, that more muslim Iraqis died by the hand of other muslim Iraqis than by the U.S. force. In no way I support the U.S. war against Iraq, but the behaviour of the Iraqis against each other is more detestable.

[roxaz]

sciencists calculated that god has 67% chance to exist (http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/ ... 94,00.html). there is a lot of proof about religion thingies. and i personaly think that creator must exist. now its ppl's choice bealive or not. but make no misstake, dont think you are smarter than other. that makes you a fool

[Saturn]

sciencists calculated that god has 67% chance to exist (http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/ ... 94,00.html).

Have you read the book this is about? I have read an excerpt at least and I know a bit of Bayesian inference. This book is bullshit. Really. First, don't say "scientists", because it was just one, and don't say "calculated", because all Unwin did was to draw some numbers out of thin air to weight certain aspects of the real world in order to determine whether they are more likely to explain a world with or without god. The way aspects have been chosen are completely unscientific. There is no reason why to chose the six aspects he did over a lot more one can think of. He probably wanted to be "fair" and have a 3:3 situation. Also he started with a null hypothesis of 50:50 of God's existence, which is highly unlikely, because I can postulate any unprovable fact and assign it a 50:50 chance of being true. Is there an a-priori fifty-fifty chance of a invisible, untouchable, and undetectable unicorn walking on the face of earth? Why would this be a-priori any less likely than existence of some god? So 50:50, and not a unicorn, but an elf? 50:50 again. Lets now postulate 100 more creatures of this kind. How unlikely it is then, that none of these exist? This is like throwing a coin and getting 100 times the same coin side. So highly unlikely. So we have to reasonably assume that a few of these undetectable creatures exist... Unless our very premise is faulty. Think about it.

roxaz, what smart people do is to use their head to think things over and be skeptic about everything and to want evidence in an argument instead of just fluffy words. That's what I want and that's not making me a fool. Blind faith without requesting evidence for unlikely things that defy everyday experience is making you a fool.

And to you too the question: Who created the creator? And if the creator doesn't need to be created, so why does the universe have to be created? Instead of postulating some creator that creates the universe, why not just postulate the universe? It were more simple and elegant, the additional requirement for a creator kinda makes things more clunky.

You speak of "a lot of proof about religion thingies". Why didn't this "proof" get disclosed then? I haven't heard any so far. And the evidence I know of were about as convincing as these 67%.
I can accept, when you say that you believe just because you want to (or have been made to), but surely not because you were so convinced about the evidence presented to your untainted mind. That's implausible and requires explanation if you want me to believe this.

[monkeycracks]

I don't believe in God or anything like that, and I definitely don't think Muslim == Terrorist. The ones with the 'Jihad' and such aren't terrorists on purpose, it's just what they believe to be true, therefore they do it.

There's terrorists from every religion (Even Buddhism ::lol:: ...Pearl Harbor?). And to classify it as Muslims only isn't a good idea.

EDIT : I feel bad for kids, they don't get to choose their religions; they're brought up with it.

[omar shaaban]

omar shaaban, so I was created by someone? Else than my parents that is? Who then created the creator? This argument leads to an infinite regression and is useless.

I see it like CuteAlien, Religion is an inhuman device that has the potential to let good people commit evil deeds. It is pointless and prevents people from respecting each other.

omar shaaban, you are pretty gullible. There is no evidence based reason to believe anything the Koran says to be the word of (some) god (mediated or not). You only believe this to be true, because you have been told by people around you. You wouldn't believe any of this if you were born elsewhere. You don't believe all this, because you chose too, but because you have been made to believe by people who have been made to believe and so on. The sick religious treadmill...

Have some balls and at least think about it. And when you're at it, also think about how useful it is to do death-arithmetics. What is the current exchange rate between Arabic and US lives? 1:10? 10:1? Does this make any sense? Is it worth to kill other people to "revenge" for other life? When will it end. Kill, kill, kill... Your position is pathetic and makes me sick. Think before you write, kiddo!

I am the last to absolve Israel from blame, but Palestine are not exactly helpful to finally solve the conflict either. And I guess it is save to say, that more Muslim Iraqis died by the hand of other Muslim Iraqis than by the U.S. force. In no way I support the U.S. war against Iraq, but the behavior of the Iraqis against each other is more detestable.

So if u don't believe in god so i ask u a question who created this world,me and u planets,and sun ,sol? and about god your small mind of me and u cant figure out how god is created !? and so maybe the qouran is wrong maybe it is just a book!! but wait it contains science that we discovered today!! and it is the only book that never anyone found a mistake in it and it described the baby formation and how it is formed !!? from 1400 years the quoran told us what we discovered early and also in the past they believed that the earth is an infinite plan but qoran told them that the earth is oval also from 1400 years and also many scientific things the qoran said...also the qoran said that that nobody will know the secret of the soul and yes until know we don't know there secrets.....
@roxaz yes we Moslem believe and must believe jesus and Mohamed and all prophets ...

[Saturn]

So if u don't believe in god so i ask u a question who created this world,me and u planets,and sun ,sol? and about god your small mind of me and u cant figure out how god is created !?

No I can't. How is god created then? That was my very question: Who did create god, how did he/she get into existence?

and so maybe the qouran is wrong maybe it is just a book!! but wait it contains science that we discovered today!!

Like what? And where? Name sura.

and it is the only book that never anyone found a mistake in it

http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html

and it described the baby formation and how it is formed !!?

In the most basic way imaginable. This is as old an claim as it is a wrong one. See http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html for a thorough discussion.

from 1400 years the quoran told us what we discovered early and also in the past they believed that the earth is an infinite plan but qoran told them that the earth is oval also from 1400 years and also many scientific things the qoran said...

You're late then, Eratosthenes already concluded this from scientific evidence ~200 B.C.

also the qoran said that that nobody will know the secret of the soul and yes until know we don't know there secrets.....

Yet! We have ideas though, testable scientific ideas. Neuroscience also has a thing or two to say about the origin of religion itself.

@roxaz yes we Moslem believe and must believe jesus and Mohamed and all prophets ...

Must believe being the key phrase. You must, whether you want to or not, because of yourself being muslim. What happens, if you don't belive this eventhough you are muslim? Aw right, you get killed for this heresy.. Oh, well, this is not exactly making Islam a cozy religion to "choose"...

[omar shaaban]

So if u don't believe in god so i ask u a question who created this world,me and u planets,and sun ,sol? and about god your small mind of me and u cant figure out how god is created !?

No I can't. How is god created then? That was my very question: Who did create god, how did he/she get into existence?

and so maybe the qouran is wrong maybe it is just a book!! but wait it contains science that we discovered today!!

Like what? And where? Name sura.

and it is the only book that never anyone found a mistake in it

http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html

and it described the baby formation and how it is formed !!?

In the most basic way imaginable. This is as old an claim as it is a wrong one. See http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html for a thorough discussion.

from 1400 years the quoran told us what we discovered early and also in the past they believed that the earth is an infinite plan but qoran told them that the earth is oval also from 1400 years and also many scientific things the qoran said...

You're late then, Eratosthenes already concluded this from scientific evidence ~200 B.C.

also the qoran said that that nobody will know the secret of the soul and yes until know we don't know there secrets.....

Yet! We have ideas though, testable scientific ideas. Neuroscience also has a thing or two to say about the origin of religion itself.

@roxaz yes we Moslem believe and must believe jesus and Mohamed and all prophets ...

Must believe being the key phrase. You must, whether you want to or not, because of yourself being muslim. What happens, if you don't belive this eventhough you are muslim? Aw right, you get killed for this heresy.. Oh, well, this is not exactly making Islam a cozy religion to "choose"...

well about the site gave me it contain wron text from qouran :
""Moore however goes further and incredibly he claims in a later edition of his textbook that the Qur'an "states that the resulting organism settles in the womb like a seed, 6 days after its beginning" [9]. This really would be amazing if it was true. Actually the Qur'an says nothing of the sort.""
no that's not true.
and about :who created god?
a:the small and limited mind of humans will not figure it out!! but only some existence of things makes us beilve that god created all this.
and also about this site :http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html
it doenst understand what qouran means(and it seams he is also weak in math
)
and yes if u didnt believe in all the prophets then u are not a muslem.

and what do u believe we are created for? and where we will go after we die??

[TheRLG]

If you guys have seen the site, http://www.tenthdimension.com/, you might think of God as the sum of all possible universes or something similar. In this way, the universe would be created by the possibility of a universe, and as such, the universe was created by "God." As to what happens after you die, you would 'return to the source' (hehe, matrix) and join "God" in the sum of all possible everythings.

Now, I am a Christian, but this "scientific" view on existence works perfectly with my Christian beliefs. I think the tension between Jews, Christians, and Muslims is a little futile because we all worship the same god, we just believe different things about the nature of God, life, existence, and the universe. It's important that everyone does realize that God is the same god for all three religions, and that they all pretty much stem from Abraham.

So, science and religion are not mutually exclusive; you can believe in both and your beliefs in both can further your understanding of everything.

[bitplane]

I should really avoid threads about religion and politics out of etiquette, but it's a topic I like arguing about, so I won't

I'm a follower of strong atheism and proudly stand with giants such as Richard Dawkins and Bertrand Russell with my view on religion. I believe that faith is something that should be reserved for individuals and ideas which stand up to scrutiny. Where ideas cannot be argued about, there is no way to reasonably object to ideas which are harmful or just plain wrong. This is the problem with most religion. (I say most because this excludes the Karmic religions)

I don't hate the religious, I do disagree with them though, and I think *any* dogmatic hate-inspiring beliefs are negative. This doesn't only apply to religion, it also applies to politics and moral philosophies too (left vs right, zlib vs GPL, Mac vs Windows). Where religious are not overly authoritarian and arrogant they are generally a positive influence on the world, and whether I believe they are right or wrong is of little relevance to the real world.

To answer the original question, "are Muslims terrorists", the answer is yes, indeed some are. The vast majority of Muslims are just happy to get on with living a happy life. The problem lies with manipulation of ignorance for political reasons, and Islam, like all dogmatic beliefs is vulnerable to this kind of manipulation - because like most religions it is extremely difficult to argue against a manipulator's interpretation without being branded as 'the enemy'.

Once upon a time the Islamic people were leaders in science and philosophy, they gave us our number system including the number 0, invented algebra, and named over 3/4 of the stars in the sky. It's a real shame that the Islamic world has made no real scientific progress since the 12th century.