AHAS - Another Hack And Slash

[Frosty Topaz]

AHAS is in the conception stage right now. I'm writing this post to list off some features we plan to have and drum up some interest (hopefully). So if anyone (especially any artists) is interested in helping out PM me or reply in this thread.

OK. The basic idea: AHAS will be a fantasy hack and slash RPG with more than just Diablo style run around and kill things. I'm aiming to find a balance of RPG elements and FPS elements. IE there is a main story(ies) and various side-quests but it's still possible to just go off and kill things in some dungeon for a while.

Version 1 will mostly be a tech demo with a couple of quests and all the framework set up to allow non-programmer-type-people to make more.

Features:
- Seamless (and possible endless a la Morrowind) exterior world
- Procedurally generated terrain textures (link to example) but more advanced than this
- Seamless entry into interior (using RTT to let you see inside buildings, caves, etc. instead of seeing the terrain) (will be very cool if it works right cause no one will ever notice it when playing)
- Data driven design allowing anyone to add quests, weapons, races, monsters, items, world geometry, etc. with no recompilation
- "Snap on" equipment. (Equipment you actually see on your character as it's equipped.
- Co-op/Competitive play
- GLSL (and hopefully also HLSL) shaders for special effects and a more dream-like look
- Cross-platform support
- Skeletal animation (read "Why we need artist help")
- Time of day and weather effects (if I figure out a good way to do this) (or if someone gives me a good way)
- A compelling single-player story line (or at least whatever our current writer comes up with at 3 am while drunk)
- Anything else anyone thinks we should have and is willing to contribute (I don't mind feature suggestions but I like them more when you say "You should do this... and I'll help!")

Wow that seems really ambitious when it's all written down like that. Well that's why I'm posting here. Comments, suggestions, "OMGILOVEIT!!!!"s are all encouraged.

[rogerborg]

Wow that seems really ambitious when it's all written down like that.

You're trembling on the cusp of an epiphany. If you're serious about completing this project, then how about you spend a couple of days breaking it down into a detailed task list, to see the real scope of what you're trying to achieve?

[dlangdev]

whoaaaaa, that's a tall order mi amigo.

you'll definitely need all the help you can get.

or, you'll code yourself to death trying to deal with all that complexity.

start with a demo, of every piece of functionality first. that alone will take months to achieve for 40 hours a week.

integration and testing will take months as well.

all in all, it will take years of work given several people working for 40 hour weeks.

[Frosty Topaz]

I don't want to be over sensitive... but I would like to say a couple things. First, I am breaking things down and I've started doing proofs of concept for a couple of these areas; more will follow. Second, I do realize that this is a lot of work. I'm not expecting it to be finished for quite some time.

Finally, and this is where I don't want to seem oversensitive, I'm not a thirteen year old who just got his hands on a compiler and has some vague image of what he thinks would be a really cool game. I would appreciate not being treated as such.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that being a star struck thirteen year old is a bad thing, just that I'm not one.

To get back to a more important issue: None of these things are really all that hard to do and most all of them can be skipped temporarily and added later if there's a need to. That said a few of these things require skills that I don't have. 3D modelling and animation primarily, and I'm not that up on shaders.

So yes I realize it's a lot, but it is doable.

[CuteAlien]

So yes I realize it's a lot, but it is doable.

Sure it's doable - everything is. The point is that with the current information which you have given all the feedback we can give is tell you that it seems like you're planning for too many features. If you succeed, that's fine. But in this case you are already better than people like me are, because I couldn't manage to complete such a complex project without a professional team working fulltime on it.

So either you are that good, in which case not many people here will have your level and we can only hope you tell us one day how to do that, or you're planning for too many features for a start.

My hint would be - start working on that seamless terain. No special textures needed, no animations, not even any modeled person necessary. So no need for an artist at this stage at all. Just do a simple demo: One sphere moving around on a seamless terrain (with stupid testtextures). Once you managed that do add some "object" nodes - like simple quarters which can be clicked and maybe change the color on click.

If you managed to do that we know at least that you have an idea what you are talking about.

[dlangdev]

my apology if my reply came out a bit rude, i don't mean it that way, it's just that my current skills pale in comparison to the requirements you wrote.

for example, here is my current skill in modeling, texturing and loading of a cube in irrlicht...



i could make better models, though it will take more time creating them.

i'm willing to spend time working on an online collaboration, i just want to make sure i'm not taken for a ride to some unknown destination.

[rogerborg]

Finally, and this is where I don't want to seem oversensitive, I'm not a thirteen year old who just got his hands on a compiler and has some vague image of what he thinks would be a really cool game. I would appreciate not being treated as such.

If your intent isn't to complete it, but just to have fun failing, then that's fair enough, but I'm doing you the courtesy of taking your feature list, and your determination to complete it, seriously.

And I think what you've specced there is (IME) ~8,000 hours of work to take to a stable release, not including any content creation.

If you think that it isn't 8000 hours of work, then you may want to break it down into a detailed task list using pessimistic estimates for design, implementation, testing and debugging of every single feature. Bear in mind that you're creating a system that has a lot of interdependent components, and that if you don't spec it down to a fine granularity before you begin implementing then you'll spend all your time chasing subtle interaction bugs all through your codebase.

I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic.

[Frosty Topaz]

OK. In case anyone was wondering no I haven't slipped off the face of the planet. Was busy with finishing up the semester/getting myself a new job/spending time with my GF. The long and short of it is: school's done, I'm starting at Theewave mid-January, and my GF is happy.

On to more important things. Past several days I've been playing around with some HLSL shaders. Special thanks go to TheGameMaker as I based what I did upon his work here. And here's the result.



The shaders working here are a compositor (The cube in the background is rendered off-scene), a glow (using a horizontal and vertical blur and then blending that back with the original), and a color saturation (my own, not TGM's).

The glow and color saturation are just for look, the compositor will be used to provide the appearance of being able to see through doors windows etc. by rendering the "outside" world separate from the "inside" world and compositing them together based on pixel color. A custom scene node will provide a quad of the appropriate color (black and full alpha) in the right places.

All that said AHAS may die very suddenly depending on the terms of my contract with Threewave. If everything I produce belongs to them it will die. If only work that I do on their time/with their equipment belongs to them then I will continue to work on AHAS on my time. So keep fingers crossed for me, I'd rather this not end here and now.

If anyone would like to see code for these I'm making it a bit more presentable ATM. Feel free to PM me or reply here and I can email you the whole shebang.

[christianclavet]

Hi, Frosty Topaz

Congratulation on taking on that projet. Don't get discouraged by the comments, we only here to help you. Hope you will be allowed to make this your work.

You could determine in steps what will be needed in each part of your project. I decided to take it down as "phases". So the objective is to do "phase .." then if completed start on the next. So for me it give a clear point on what you need to acheive and make it realistic.

I have made quite a long preparation before starting my project. First, I had to try to know a little more of the pipeline, so I've created my demo. I took me about 2 1/2 months and learned a lot. Once that completed I knew much more what I had to do (I still have surprises! )

After this I tryied to do my best to define my objectives and make it realistic. You could check how Halifax documented his project. It's inspiring; and I would like to take my notes and do the same (will surely do it this week or next week). This could also inspire you. Preparation of the steps required to make your application is crucial.
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=25356

[Frosty Topaz]

Don't worry Christian, I've already divided the project up. The current stage/phase I'm working on is building little proof of concept demos of each feature/group of features. So this latest work was on the post process shaders I'll be using.
Next is going to be a time of day effect. I'm hoping to be able to set up a simple skybox and have a moving sun and changing ambient light values based on the time. It wont be as fancy as it could be, but I think it'll do the job.