Interesting article on PC piracy and budgets

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:21 am

Over here, by one of the Stardock guys.

Talking points:

In other software markets, getting 1% of the target market is considered good. If you need to sell 500,000 of your game to break even and your game requires Pixel Shader 3 to not look like crap or play like crap, do you you really think that there are 50 MILLION PC users with Pixel Shader 3 capable machines who a) play games and b) will actually buy your game if a pirated version is available?

Seems reasonable to me. The more bleeding edge your visuals, the more it'll cost you to create them, and the fewer people will be capable of appreciating (and thus paying you for) them.

The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games [is] because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. [...] That's how it works in every [other] market -- the people who buy stuff call the shots. Only in the PC game market are the people who pirate stuff still getting the overwhelming percentage of development resources and editorial support.

Maybe a little lesson here about the value of spending developer time trying to secure your app and resources.

skumar · Post by **skumar** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Its simply the truth....

Everyone feels relaxed by blaming someone for some bad cause....

Same with the game devs...tooo....

I think the game devs should spend some time calmly before jumping into their next dream project...

Piracy is an unstoppable reality...if we make a better copy protection ...a better crack is made....

the main reasons for all these things are:

1. HUMANS MADE COMPUTER
2. HUMANS ARE INTELLIGENT
3. THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD PEOPLE

night_hawk · Post by **night_hawk** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:38 pm

Copy protection in my opinion is a bit exagerated.

If a pirate would pirate your game, he would do it anyway. The main reason he would do it is because he can't afford the original and wants to save money for, I don't know... FOOD and essential stuff. So he gets to play the game for free. Others have to buy it. But here's the main trick, if he can't break the game's code, he won't play it at all. Most likely ever. He'll never buy it. But if he DOES manage to play it for free first, if he realy realy likes the whole game, you have +1 potential future customer. It's not a certain thing, but it's a potential.

kingdutch · Post by **kingdutch** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:03 pm

Indeed, for the rest, all the good things get overpriced, because currently photoshop and dreamweaver, which are really good tools for hobbyists too and not multi billion corporations are costing more than the great computer you can run the software on >.<

bitplane · Post by **bitplane** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:06 am

Mostly it's the publishers who demand obtrusive copy protection measures and rather than the developers wasting time on them it's all outsourced and either added on to the price of the game, or subsidised (the point of SecuROM is to introduce a rental model rather than stop piracy).

This article is a great read, and is along the same vein as Joel Spolsky's "Pay attention to your customers, not your competitors" rant. Thanks for sharing

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:14 am

I find it quite ridiculous that most people believe that pirates pirate because of the lack of money. It may hold true fora select group, but the jist of the pirate group is users who believe that the pirated software is not worth their money.

And when you think about it, it makes sense. The only way to stay rich is to not spend money, or to make money. You will find that most pirates are either rich, they think it's cool that they can download things and hand them out to their friends, or they do it for self-gratifying pleasure. There are also the people who test out a pirated version to decide whether they would like to buy the product.

At any rate, if I were to release software that I fear would be pirated, then I would just want some secruity type of thing to at least show me where the breach came from. I haven't put much thought into, but I would rather know the person that instigated the pirating.

kingdutch wrote:Indeed, for the rest, all the good things get overpriced, because currently photoshop and dreamweaver, which are really good tools for hobbyists too and not multi billion corporations are costing more than the great computer you can run the software on >.<

The only reason those products are overpriced is because the demand is not enough for them to lower the price. The common concept of supply meeting demand. And the reason is because the market in which they operate is a very niche-like market. Not to mention that they have the market saturated with their product.

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:57 am

Halifax wrote:At any rate, if I were to release software that I fear would be pirated, then I would just want some secruity type of thing to at least show me where the breach came from. I haven't put much thought into, but I would rather know the person that instigated the pirating.

And what would you do about it?

What would the return on your investment be?

Would you get a higher return from spending that time and/or money on adding features that your paying customers would appreciate?

torleif · Post by **torleif** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:40 am

Read all that article, it's 100% right. Honesty is the best policy. I feel sorry for the guys who created spore; the NAZI style DRM on it will put a lot of people off, and if it sells poorly you can guarantee that the pirates will be to blame

One thing the article didn't mention was that in some cases pirating can be good for the industry. I wouldn't have bought CS source if a friend hadn't given me a cracked version to play on a LAN first, and I've done it to most of the games I bought

I think the piracy hype just a ploy to try to get crap games onto the market. If we have to buy to try it, or the devs spit shine the hell out of the demo and end up with a lemon, it's us who lose out

night_hawk · Post by **night_hawk** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:47 pm

Halifax: I'm in such a position. If I truly liked a game I got in more... illegal ways, I will try to buy it. I put emphasis on "try". But I can't buy a game blindly. Hell, a demo doesn't help me like a game. I don't have an income that allows me to get everything I want. Not even half of that. Or a quarter of that.

Many pirates indeed pirate for their own satisfaction, but rarely for money. At least that's valid in my country.

bitplane · Post by **bitplane** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm

Halifax, the point isn't that downloaders don't have money it's that they aren't paying customers, and therefore you shouldn't spend any money or time on them.
If they can't download your game they'll just download another one instead, it's not like there's a lack of games out there.

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:02 pm

rogerborg wrote:
Halifax wrote:At any rate, if I were to release software that I fear would be pirated, then I would just want some secruity type of thing to at least show me where the breach came from. I haven't put much thought into, but I would rather know the person that instigated the pirating.
And what would you do about it?

What would the return on your investment be?

Would you get a higher return from spending that time and/or money on adding features that your paying customers would appreciate?

Steve, the creator of Ogre3D, suggested this method to Niko. And he in fact said that it worked out well for him.

Speaking to night_hawk, and bitplane, you guys definitely make some valid points, and I guess that was my fault for not seeing them. So, bitplane, are you saying that people should spend less time developing methods to stop piraters? (I may be misinterpreting that.)

rogerborg · Post by **rogerborg** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:23 pm

Halifax wrote:
rogerborg wrote:
Halifax wrote:At any rate, if I were to release software that I fear would be pirated, then I would just want some secruity type of thing to at least show me where the breach came from. I haven't put much thought into, but I would rather know the person that instigated the pirating.
And what would you do about it?

Steve, the creator of Ogre3D, suggested this method to Niko. And he in fact said that it worked out well for him.

OK, thanks.

Halifax · Post by **Halifax** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:34 am

No problem, rogerborg. But anyways, if you were to find the person responsible for the pirating, and you have a legal copyright/trademark, then you could issue a C & D order for copyright/trademark infringement. As referenced by my previous post, you would probably be better off talking to Steve about the topic.

jam · Post by **jam** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:05 am

rogerborg wrote: OK, thanks.

Very subtle rogerborg.

Virion · Post by **Virion** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:22 am

i wont even know what the heck is warcraft and all other AAA titles if the pirated version doesn't exist. back in my hometown you won't be able to even buy genuine games as no shop is selling it because the market is too small here. another reason is when the price gets converted to our country currency it becomes very expensive to us. and now i either buy genuine game (not living in my hometown now) or don't play the games at all.